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View Poll Results: What is most important to you, in regards to human qualities?
Wealth and productivity 7 25.00%
Compassion, sympathy and niceness 21 75.00%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 12th, 2012, 05:53 PM   #21
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Imagine that you could get every material thing in the world you want, anytime you want it.

But you have no family or friends.

What would you choose?
Empirically it is an unrealistic dilemma; the availability of family & fiends tend to be positively correlated with wealth.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 06:22 PM   #22

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Originally Posted by Sicknero View Post
Personal qualities all the way for me.

I think you've been a bit unlucky if you've found yourself mostly among people who value the material over personal qualities.

Looking back over my own life, there's no doubt who the people are that I remember with love and affection, they are the ones who had (or have) some personal quality or qualities that I appreciated being around, who added something emotional or cerebral or spiritual to my life beyond the material, and maybe just as importantly made me feel that I added something to theirs. Even with those who I remember negatively, it's still for non-material qualities.

It occurs to me also that the same applies to people from history. Sure there are some who are famous just for being disgustingly wealthy, but there are many many more imo who are remembered for personal human qualities - courage, compassion, selflessness, intelligence, inventiveness ... I could go on but I guess you get the point.
I agree completely. Well said. I will just add, that in the cynical age we live in, qualities like compassion and selflessness are often looked at as having an ulterior motive, which is probably the biggest reason why some might think they don't exist any more.

A case in point:

The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa in Theory and Practice: Christopher Hitchens, Thomas Mallon: 9781455523009: Amazon.com: Books
The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa in Theory and Practice: Christopher Hitchens, Thomas Mallon: 9781455523009: Amazon.com: Books

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Old December 12th, 2012, 07:19 PM   #23

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Is one possible without the other? Not in my experiences. Try loosing a job and falling on hard times, you will find out how far compassion goes.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 09:00 PM   #24

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The thing is, I live a comfortable life. I'm not rich, though I am by the standards of most people in the world and even by the standards of my parents. Money will buy me a nicer car, but I have a perfectly fine car as it is.

I can't complain about my material life as it is.

So, I wouldn't screw anyone over for more money. And if I had to give up 90% of my wealth to keep my family... if it meant living in a cardboard box... yeah, I'd do that rather than harm the people who keep me human.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 11:54 PM   #25
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Btw. I have a suspecion that the more we discuss material-immaterial values in this manner the more immaterial values are being annihalated by the material values, because basically everything is just down to atoms and molecules interacting together.

What we can discuss is how to use these interactions for the purpose of the immaterial - or the continuation of the material values.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 11:55 PM   #26
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Is one possible without the other? Not in my experiences. Try loosing a job and falling on hard times, you will find out how far compassion goes.
Which is exactly why compassion has to be realized.

In other words, we should use the material world to promote immaterial values and materialize the immaterial values into something we can see, feel, hear otherwise measure.

As human beings able to reflect upon ourselves, we have a choice:

A) To realize our compassion for others into a welfare state that takes care of the sick, elderly, disabled and unemployed.
B) To work to eat to work. And when we can't work, we can't eat, then we die.
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Old December 13th, 2012, 12:31 AM   #27

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It seems to me... no, let me put it this way:

It IS a FACT of life that MOST people in todays 21st century hold the opinion that materialistic values (productivity and wealth) are the only measures of human qualities.

What is your opinion on material versus immaterial values when measuring human qualities?
I do not see how they negate each other at all. Possiby in generic experience... in logic, they certainly do not.

I do like some of the things you can have for money, and the fiscal security even more, and I do like "good" human behaviour strongly, but not through any means, or most means actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
Empirically it is an unrealistic dilemma; the availability of family & fiends tend to be positively correlated with wealth.
Don't remind me...
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Old December 13th, 2012, 12:42 AM   #28

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Ive done a lot of niceness and compassion and it got me nowhere,in fact worse off,so wealth wins my vote now !
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Old December 13th, 2012, 01:38 AM   #29
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Ive done a lot of niceness and compassion and it got me nowhere,in fact worse off,so wealth wins my vote now !
Which is exactly the problem I addressed:

There is no incentive to be nice and compassionate these days.

Back in the Middle Ages there was a high incentive for being nice and compassionate. But in todays materialized and atheist world, there simply isn't any incentive for being nice and compassionate.

Everybody seems to be talking about the incentive to work. But nobody gives a sh*t about the incentive to be nice!
Work is a neccessity. So is compassion, because that is what gives us the quality of life we are working to get.

Since there is enough focus on the incentive to work, I think it is time for people to look inwards and begin reflecting and philosophizing about the immaterial values of life.
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Old December 13th, 2012, 01:57 AM   #30

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Well if you think you can get compassion back on a global scale then good luck with that !
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