philosopher

It seems to me... no, let me put it this way:

It IS a FACT of life that MOST people in todays 21st century hold the opinion that materialistic values (productivity and wealth) are the only measures of human qualities.

For instance, I have yet to meet a single poll that shows the opposite. Whereever I am going, I meet people who hold the opinion that everything must be measured in how productive you are.

Their arguments are basically that the more productive other members are, the more technology we can produce and the more work places we can generate thus creating more wealth for themselves and their family.

Wealth is, in their argument, the key to happiness because it can buy goods which makes you happy. Like an iPad... or a friend.

To extend it further, they put forth the arguments that people who claim the opposite that material wealth is not the key to happiness, are simply poor losers who haven't had the chance to get a grip of the newest technological wonders that makes life so much more easy and interesting.

While I do agree that technology makes life easier (in some ways) and that it can be fun to use, I completely disagree that this is the key to happinesss.

I am speaking of experience. I could wish for a new laptop that has 16 GB RAM (at least) and SSD-drive and at least 8 cores. I could. But would that make me happy? Before that was invented, I wanted something just half this size, and got it. It was fun to use and still is.

But that's not what makes me truely happy. What makes me happy is in fact something that I can't buy for money. Something that I have to work very hard for, indeed. Like... having a family and friends.

Surely I could buy someone to be my friend. Give her 20 bucks for watching a funny movie in the cinema with me. I'd pay her ticket too.

But that's not what I want. I want her to voluntarily follow me - and to pay her ticket herself. I even want her to like me as I am.

Now that doesn't require money. It requires work. But not work measured in productivity, but in compassion, niceness and sympathy.

What is your opinion on material versus immaterial values when measuring human qualities?

Sicknero

Personal qualities all the way for me.

I think you've been a bit unlucky if you've found yourself mostly among people who value the material over personal qualities.

Looking back over my own life, there's no doubt who the people are that I remember with love and affection, they are the ones who had (or have) some personal quality or qualities that I appreciated being around, who added something emotional or cerebral or spiritual to my life beyond the material, and maybe just as importantly made me feel that I added something to theirs. Even with those who I remember negatively, it's still for non-material qualities.

It occurs to me also that the same applies to people from history. Sure there are some who are famous just for being disgustingly wealthy, but there are many many more imo who are remembered for personal human qualities - courage, compassion, selflessness, intelligence, inventiveness ... I could go on but I guess you get the point.

philosopher

A lot of my social networking is based on discussion forums.
Luckily the people around me physically do not hold materialistic views.

Sadly though, courage is often simplified into risk taking, either gaining lots of wealth and fame, or lose something important to you.

Compassion and selflessness is just being laughed at - and exploited.

Intelligence is frowned upon - or exploited for the sake of productivity and wealth.

Inventiveness is only embraced because of its economic and productive values.

Gorge123

It's quite hard..... Well compassion is important of course. I will have to say compassion. STILL well... (unsure)

philosopher

Imagine that you could get every material thing in the world you want, anytime you want it.

But you have no family or friends.

What would you choose?

Sicknero

Sadly I can't really argue with that seeming to be the case in the world right now. Just not for everybody.

philosopher

The wisest thing to do is to have a fair balance between the immaterial and the material.
Understood in the way that immaterial values must not hinder material development just for the sake of hindering material development.

If material development enhances immaterial development, that particular material development should be enhanced and taken to new and even higher levels.

Gorge123

Hmmm..... Then I will have to choose friends or family......

Jhangora

Wealth/Money is no doubt important. However, there is a limit to which it can make us happy. Recently I read a couple of nice articles. One was about the limit of happiness being reached @ US 75,000 per annum (I guess it was for the residents of the US). The other one was about the cost of living in the costliest places and compared it to the cost of living in nice places which were not very expensive (again I think the setting was the US).

What would one do if there's lots of money but no human being to spend it on? People around us give meaning to our life.

Regarding productivity - it is important for the society as a whole. However, economic systems which treat human beings as slaves don't last long. Personally, I am a lazy person and love to do nothing most of the times

philosopher

We humans share our ability to Sympathize and be Compassionate towards others, with non-human species of higher mammels.

That's one trait of being human.

Then there's the ability to communicate, exchange and accumulate goods and ressources and compete with each other. That trait is human too, but it is shared by even the lowest of the lowest of species, as communication, exchange & tool making is shared by birds (birdsinging, building nests and vomiting food to their chicks).
Competition is shared by every living thing, including plants.

What is important is our human trait that is only found in humans: Ability to reflect upon ourselves (reasoning).

I believe we should use that reasoning to favor the highest traits of life top-down.