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Old March 20th, 2013, 08:13 PM   #1

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Are Communists Right Wing?


With the discussion going on in another thread on if the Nazi's were left wing I thought I would start one about Communism.

I am talking a Soviet and Chinese style Communism not true Communism.

Soviet style communism was very conservative and resistant to change. It advocated very conservative morals, banning pornography, being homophobic, teaching an extreme form a of patriotism, being militaristic and favouring an aggressive foreign policy. Not just right wing values but extremely anti left wing.

On top of this communism created a strong hierarchy, maintained this hierarchy and expected obedience to this hierarchy by the lower classes. it created an elite class at the top of this hierarchy and in some cases a king like figure (often hereditary such as North Korea). Lower classes were expected to maintain this elite in luxury.

Communism was highly authoritarian, banned labour unions and any kind of opposition to the leadership reducing people largely to serfs. It didn't apply the law evenly but always in favour of the aristocracy. It manipulated the press, biased education and accounts of history and sought to morally dominated the population.

Economically it ran a state controlled capitalist system manipulating the markets and subsidizing business in favour of the aristocrat who were benefiting from it. Overseas it practiced imperialism as a foreign policy.

In summary it has to be one of the most right wing systems in history, while not as far right as Nazism, a lot more right than Conservatism, and uncannily similar to the Neo-Cons, then again the Neo-Con movement was founded by a Communist, so not surprising.

Last edited by Toltec; March 20th, 2013 at 08:18 PM.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 08:51 PM   #2

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Communist as Right wing reactionaries? I don't think so. They were pretty left of the staunchest radicals. However, like the Nazi's they knew how to tap into peoples fears & xenophobia while dressing it all up in nationalism for the mother country.

What I don't see is any resemblance with neo-cons. Whatever they are, neo-cons have wound up more as the main part of a joke on late night talks shows rather than anything to be taken seriously.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 08:58 PM   #3

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No I wouldn't say communism is right-wing, but you make a good point, the further extreme you go, the more right and left look the same.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 10:56 PM   #4

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthera tigris altaica View Post
What I don't see is any resemblance with neo-cons. Whatever they are, neo-cons
If you popped back to the 60s or 70's one of the defining characteristics would be old fashioned conservatism was pragmatic, while old fashion lefties were ideological. Nowadays Neo-Cons are ideological and ironically the modern left is getting very pragmatic.
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Old March 21st, 2013, 06:17 AM   #5

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I'm agreeing with Toltec on this one....It does seem that the Soviet state was, in fact, characterized by conservatism...whether they acknowledged that or not.

I'm curious to know the arguments of those who think the Soviets were leftists.
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Old March 21st, 2013, 07:00 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pnoozi View Post
No I wouldn't say communism is right-wing, but you make a good point, the further extreme you go, the more right and left look the same.
This is probably the most insightful post you're going to get out of this topic.
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Old March 21st, 2013, 12:38 PM   #7
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“Extreme left, right whose the **** in the middle?”
At some point all extremes become the same. Can Any physicist explain?
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Old March 21st, 2013, 02:01 PM   #8

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Soviet Communism was characterised by true, high leftist ideals, as espoused mostly by Trotsky. Some of the early post revolution Bolsheviks wanted a true "proletarian paradise".

Others thought that Lenin was moving too fast: after all, Lenin's brand of Communism did not follow the much slower, evolutionary path one must make to Communism, that of democratic socialism and slowly, via changing mindsets, to Communism itself, which of course shares much the same goal as the loathsome US style Libertarianism: little or no Government.

However, there was a very hostile world outside the USSR. The USSR had to industrialise, neutralise its enemies, and become as self sufficient as possible very quickly in order to counter this threat.

The Bolshevik intelligentsia argued endlessly. Whilst crash industrialisation mostly worked, Lenin realised that crash agriculturalisation would take longer.

The problem was, Lenin admitted that he was very disappointed by the attitudes of the Proletariat and those one notch above: the proletariat was passive, selfish, petite bourgeois and often resistant. They couldn't see the goals Lenin had for them and Lenin couldn't understand why.

As an aside, that's the only reason capitalism has lasted so long, because it appeals to all that's worst about ordinary people: greed, selfishness, passivity and petty snobbery.

Whilst Lenin became disillusioned, Stalin was in no such state. Possibly due to not being a member of the Bolshevik intelligentsia, ("Our wonderful Georgian" was treated as a useful workhorse by Lenin, but a workhorse nonetheless), Stalin probably had far more cynical but accurate ideas about the Proletariat and those deemed NOT the proletariat, such as the Kulaks.

If you think about it, the Nazi state was very similar: as disillusionment set it, they, too, became more and more repressive towards their own people. Whilst early Nazism was benevolent (within boundaries) to those who weren't Jewish, foreign, socialist/communist or trade unionist, latter day Nazism became more and more vicious to its own.

Both Nazism and Soviet style Communism were really very idealistic, romantic ideas. Once the honeymoon wore off, both became incredibly alike. If you go too far to the left, you end up on the right, and vice versa.

Under the skin, there was little difference between the NKVD and the RHSA or Gestapo, except the latter had more refined methods.
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Old March 21st, 2013, 02:20 PM   #9
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Labeling Nazism as "right wing" is one of the most misrepresented views today. Left = more government, right = less government. They are both extreme left ideologies. What the propaganda claims is another matter of course.
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Old March 21st, 2013, 02:27 PM   #10

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Communism's ultimate goal is NO or very little Government.
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