Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > Themes in History > Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology Forum - Perennial Ideas and Debates that cross societal/time boundaries


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old April 21st, 2013, 03:18 AM   #21

funakison's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Oct 2012
From: Between a rock and a hard place
Posts: 3,408
Blog Entries: 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjadams View Post
I have little to no sympathy for those in incarcerated.
But before the line forms attacking me, let me explain.
For the hardened criminal, the ones of the more serious
offensives, I say give them the death penalty, no life sentences.

For the second tier criminal, the non-violent ones, give them
their sentences and keep the appeal process as is in the system.

Can criminals be rehabilitated? Sure, some can, but I see it as more
not wanting to conform to playing by societies rules & would not
want to conform and have responsibilities. Reforming a criminal is
like asking 100 students "Do you want to go to school"?
Out of the 100, you'd probably get 20 who enjoy school, and want to go,
but the majority would go the other way.


Agree with much of what you say except for the death penalty. Even in the best legal system mistakes happen. If new info comes to light proving someone innocent and they have been `judicialy killed` then that is wrong and leads to cover ups and perversion of justice.
Having said that all this DNA malaki has reduced the chances of mistakes.
funakison is offline  
Remove Ads
Old April 21st, 2013, 04:32 AM   #22

Gudenrath's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: May 2012
From: Denmark
Posts: 2,547
Blog Entries: 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by funakison View Post
Agree with much of what you say except for the death penalty. Even in the best legal system mistakes happen. If new info comes to light proving someone innocent and they have been `judicialy killed` then that is wrong and leads to cover ups and perversion of justice.
Having said that all this DNA malaki has reduced the chances of mistakes.
Reduced it, yes, but not eradicated it.
Gudenrath is offline  
Old April 21st, 2013, 04:45 AM   #23
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Dec 2012
From: New York
Posts: 538

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjadams View Post
I have little to no sympathy for those in incarcerated.
But before the line forms attacking me, let me explain.
For the hardened criminal, the ones of the more serious
offensives, I say give them the death penalty, no life sentences.

For the second tier criminal, the non-violent ones, give them
their sentences and keep the appeal process as is in the system.

Can criminals be rehabilitated? Sure, some can, but I see it as more
not wanting to conform to playing by societies rules & would not
want to conform and have responsibilities. Reforming a criminal is
like asking 100 students "Do you want to go to school"?
Out of the 100, you'd probably get 20 who enjoy school, and want to go,
but the majority would go the other way.
I see it as: A criminal will always be a criminal, they will always have that thought in their mind of committing the act. Whether they should be locked up for ever, the death penalty, or sentenced for limited time, depends on what their crime was. Because, per se, the guy just killed his ex-girlfriend (for whatever unnecessary reason), he gets sentenced for years depending on the homicide. What I mean is that he will always be a killer after he committed that crime. And typically people who kill one, will kill more, because they get some kind of sick high from doing so.

On the other hand, all 100 children would much rather be home playing video games or whatnot. The 20 that say they enjoy it, don't enjoy it, they just hope for success which now requires education as the primary factor.
sgtdole is offline  
Old April 21st, 2013, 04:55 AM   #24

Fox's Avatar
Fox
새옹지마
 
Joined: Oct 2011
From: Korea
Posts: 2,768

I feel like the opposite question is worth asking: is there enough sympathy for criminals? The entire American mass-incarceration complex says no. The juvenile incarceration complex says no. The number of states which still execute people, risking innocent lives in the process, says no (I am pleased that my own home state of Wisconsin has not had the death penalty since long before I was born). More importantly, the society's tendency to reinforce poverty instead if pulling people out of it says no. A kid grows up in an urban ghetto, father in jail, mother working three part time jobs to keep him fed, attends a terrible school surrounded by other youth of the same culture, and then when he shockingly goes bad and ends up locked up in jail sharing a room big enough for one with three other guys, comfortable middle classers ask, "Hey, are we showing this guy too much sympathy? Maybe we should just kill him on the cheap instead of keeping him locked up."
Fox is online now  
Old April 21st, 2013, 06:09 AM   #25

larkin's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,795
Blog Entries: 5

I read your thread and I think you would be popular on any civil board overseeing correctional institutions. It would not be long before you would be approached by Correctional Corporation of America and the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) showering you with gifts for your loyal support. The truth is that prisons are big business and they need more people to incarcerate. ALEC regularly lobbies for "Get tough on crime laws" that brought "3 strikes and mandatory minimums.

A majority of the crimes committed that lands someone in jail are drug offences or minors crimes fueled by poverty. These prisoners are mid-teens to late twenties and they draw sentences of a decade or more in jail which essentially destroys their life from that point on. The US has more people in prison than the even the Russian Gulag. 2.5 million, most often young people down to the age of 13.

I am encouraged that California has struck down the onerous 3 strikes law that could land someone in prison for life for something as minor as being late for a parole appointment. Most recidivism is due to the draconian parole requirements.

The media has done their job by showing only the toughest killer types in super-max surroundings. This makes for entertaining TV but it is inaccurate. These are the people that belong in prison but they are the minority of people in prison.

The vast majority are poor people or addicts that have resorted to low level crimes to survive. This is also the result job exportation and 30 years of computerization that has rendered a segment of the population superfluous.

If you don't know anyone in prison it could be because you are not black. This is the largest segment in prison although this glaring statistic is hard to pin-down. Blacks, black youth and black family life is being systematically destroyed. I consider it genocide in slow motion..

PrisonSucks.com: Research on the prison industrial complex
The stats on this link go back to 2006. I would say they haven't gotten better.


On a final note, I would say that the death penalty is preferable to life in a super-max.
larkin is offline  
Old April 21st, 2013, 06:28 AM   #26

larkin's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,795
Blog Entries: 5

This one is for TJ.

There is a trend of making school rule infractions a police matter punishable as an actual crime racking up in the form of a criminal record.

This sometime results in straight to jail without committing a punishable crime.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/09/ed...pout.html?_r=0


Quote:
Ask Ricardo Martinez, co-executive director of the Denver-based parent and student activist group Padres & Jóvenes Unidos, and he will tell you that it’s not unheard of for kids at the city’s high schools and some junior highs to end up in handcuffs if they are caught chewing gum in class or talking back to a teacher.

As School-To-Prison Pipeline Continues To Swallow Students, Denver Works To Stem Flow
I too am afraid of dangerous killers and violent individuals and I want to see them in prison but what is happening here is more about authoritarianism.. The more people we unjustly imprison today the more killers we will have tomorrow.
larkin is offline  
Old April 21st, 2013, 07:19 AM   #27

kbear's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,415

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjadams View Post
I have little to no sympathy for those in incarcerated.
But before the line forms attacking me, let me explain.
For the hardened criminal, the ones of the more serious
offensives, I say give them the death penalty, no life sentences.

For the second tier criminal, the non-violent ones, give them
their sentences and keep the appeal process as is in the system.

Can criminals be rehabilitated? Sure, some can, but I see it as more
not wanting to conform to playing by societies rules & would not
want to conform and have responsibilities. Reforming a criminal is
like asking 100 students "Do you want to go to school"?
Out of the 100, you'd probably get 20 who enjoy school, and want to go,
but the majority would go the other way.
i agree with the harsh treatment of those who have commited violent crimes like murder and rape. rapists/pedophiles tend to commit the same crimes if they are let out.

i think if a rapist/pedophile agrees to castration (physical not chemical) then they could be paroled after serving a long sentence. the only case where i think the murderer was truly sorry and really truly reformed after becoming a christian was carla faye tucker

. govenor bush refused to pardon her though and she was executed in texas after killing someone with a pick axe. everyone interviewed at the prison who knew her really thought she had changed and there were even guards crying on the day of her execution. she was comforting them! i'm not saying she should have been let out because she did need to pay for her crimes but i think her sentence should have been commuted to life in prison..


Last edited by kbear; April 21st, 2013 at 07:32 AM.
kbear is offline  
Old April 21st, 2013, 07:22 AM   #28

PM96's Avatar
Gorilla Guerilla
 
Joined: Feb 2012
From: California
Posts: 4,681
Blog Entries: 1

Not every criminal is a monster, but the worst of them shouldn't get any special treatment. I just think that murder and rape, which have irreversible consequences, are unforgivable. Giving a murderer a 10 year prison sentence (and it happens) is ridiculous. Also, why death penalty is too expensive is because we in the United States waste decades on this useless appeals process.

Last edited by PM96; April 21st, 2013 at 07:25 AM.
PM96 is offline  
Old April 21st, 2013, 08:29 AM   #29

JTWuest's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Dec 2012
From: Savannah, GA
Posts: 846

Who and where are all these people who are supposedly sympathetic to murderers???

On the other hand, I have a great deal of sympathy for Americans jailed because of the drug war.
JTWuest is offline  
Old April 21st, 2013, 09:00 AM   #30
Scholar
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 892

Quote:
Originally Posted by PM96 View Post
Not every criminal is a monster, but the worst of them shouldn't get any special treatment. I just think that murder and rape, which have irreversible consequences, are unforgivable. Giving a murderer a 10 year prison sentence (and it happens) is ridiculous. Also, why death penalty is too expensive is because we in the United States waste decades on this useless appeals process.
I think it's interesting you have a picture of Stalin in your profile, because he's an example of someone who is not black and white, as Rosi put it. He both did things that are very hard to forgive (many murders, the Katyn massacre being one example) yet who can also be seen as having a substantial positive legacy as well (presiding over the defeat of Nazi Germany, and industrializing the Soviet Union).

Last edited by Olustee; April 21st, 2013 at 09:05 AM.
Olustee is offline  
Reply

  Historum > Themes in History > Philosophy, Political Science, and Sociology

Tags
criminals, sympathy


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
sympathy for the devil bartieboy Art and Cultural History 14 June 5th, 2012 05:48 PM
Why Eva Braun Deserves No Sympathy: Conversation with Heike Görtemaker Belloc European History 2 February 2nd, 2012 11:43 AM
Most notorious war criminals ever! Thessalonian War and Military History 1 November 3rd, 2011 07:03 AM
War criminals of ww2 BogdaNz European History 95 August 9th, 2011 02:17 AM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.