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Old October 16th, 2013, 08:44 AM   #1
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A note about racism


Racism: a social disease

I am worried after reading the "Stop Syjionizmowi," published in one of the Polish websites, not in English:

?yd | Stop Syjonizmowi

I did not read the well-known forgery: "Protocol of Elders of Zion," fabricated over a hundred years ago in Tsarist Russia. But this Polish post is probably more nonsensical and more poisonous.

The author writes, for instance, "the greatest criminals, murderers and traitors in history were mostly Jews (Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Dzerzhinsky)." This statement is false: none of them was a Jew. Also false is the claim that "The Jewish religion is not ... based on the Old Testament." The article is full of such nonsense; I think that the author knows this very well. But I have no desire to argue with him. This kind of propaganda is very dangerous; it may lead, under some conditions, to a new wave of massive tragedies.

Who should criticize and expose authors of such articles? I do not think that this should be done by Jews. Our (Jewish) participation in the fight against potential murderers should be reduced to criticism of anti-Polish statements made by some Jews. And our day-to-day behavior should demonstrate that we are not liars, thieves and murderers, as claimed in the slanderous article.

At the forefront of the struggle with Polish anti-Semitism should be Poles - right wing, left wing, theists, atheists, scientists, and ordinary people. Why do I think so? Because I know that such struggle can be very effective. Passivity in the face of racism makes us morally responsible for what may take place in the future. Such passivity is also an insult to our national honors. I often think about this when I read our common Golden Rule: "Do to others as you would have them do to you."

Ludwik
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Old October 16th, 2013, 09:02 AM   #2

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kowalskil View Post
Racism: a social disease

I am worried after reading the "Stop Syjionizmowi," published in one of the Polish websites, not in English:

?yd | Stop Syjonizmowi

I did not read the well-known forgery: "Protocol of Elders of Zion," fabricated over a hundred years ago in Tsarist Russia. But this Polish post is probably more nonsensical and more poisonous.

The author writes, for instance, "the greatest criminals, murderers and traitors in history were mostly Jews (Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Dzerzhinsky)." This statement is false: none of them was a Jew. Also false is the claim that "The Jewish religion is not ... based on the Old Testament." The article is full of such nonsense; I think that the author knows this very well. But I have no desire to argue with him. This kind of propaganda is very dangerous; it may lead, under some conditions, to a new wave of massive tragedies.

Who should criticize and expose authors of such articles? I do not think that this should be done by Jews. Our (Jewish) participation in the fight against potential murderers should be reduced to criticism of anti-Polish statements made by some Jews. And our day-to-day behavior should demonstrate that we are not liars, thieves and murderers, as claimed in the slanderous article.

At the forefront of the struggle with Polish anti-Semitism should be Poles - right wing, left wing, theists, atheists, scientists, and ordinary people. Why do I think so? Because I know that such struggle can be very effective. Passivity in the face of racism makes us morally responsible for what may take place in the future. Such passivity is also an insult to our national honors. I often think about this when I read our common Golden Rule: "Do to others as you would have them do to you."

Ludwik
Yes, it's a piece of trash, as disgraceful as it is stupid, but there's loads of trash on the net.

I can give you links to heaps of anglophone websites directly. I recently came across some American guy claiming it was the Jews who engineered the Holocaust! Not to mention all anglophone Holocaust-denial websites. Frankly, in all the years I spent in Poland I didn't even realize there was such a thing as Holocaust-denial. I never encountered the phenomenon first-hand before coming to Historum.

Sadly, there's a lunatic fringe in every country and in the age of the internet there's no stopping all sorts of people from setting up whatever website they like and spawning all sorts of idiocies to their hearts content.

And don't go over the top (a battle call to "the forefront of struggle" against "potential murderers" is justified by nothing in the real world).

Last edited by antonina; October 16th, 2013 at 09:11 AM.
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Old October 16th, 2013, 10:02 AM   #3
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When one is speaking the Truth it doesn't have to be always seen as Race-ism , Meaning some people can't deal with the Truth when it not in their Favor , Even tho Race-ism ,do Breed'sss , Hatred , Separation , Ignorance , and the many War'sss on the planet .
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Old October 17th, 2013, 01:45 PM   #4

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When one is speaking the Truth it doesn't have to be always seen as Race-ism , Meaning some people can't deal with the Truth when it not in their Favor , Even tho Race-ism ,do Breed'sss , Hatred , Separation , Ignorance , and the many War'sss on the planet .
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Old October 18th, 2013, 07:43 AM   #5

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Yes, it IS true: the truth may well be racist. The truth is pretty indiscriminate in my experience, it doesn't mind who is to blame

But hurling labels at such people has the effect of making them become a solid mass where no such mass exists. One could, with accuracy, describe many people from the past as racists: Winston Churchill, George Patton, Roosevelt.....

Do they deserve to be in the same category as Hitler or Himmler? No. But they're all racists to some extent or other.

So, calling idiots like the one who wrote that article a racist, or the legion of writers Antonina mentions and people like David Irving, actually is a cheap shot and does nothing at all to negate or cancel their arguments. If what they write is false, then it is easy enough to counter their arguments. Who should do it? Everyone who disagrees with them. As I have said many times, if we don't, at some point they'll be taken seriously. Time is a great blurrer of truth
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Old October 18th, 2013, 08:00 AM   #6

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Yes, it IS true: the truth may well be racist. The truth is pretty indiscriminate in my experience, it doesn't mind who is to blame

But hurling labels at such people has the effect of making them become a solid mass where no such mass exists. One could, with accuracy, describe many people from the past as racists: Winston Churchill, George Patton, Roosevelt.....

Do they deserve to be in the same category as Hitler or Himmler? No. But they're all racists to some extent or other.

So, calling idiots like the one who wrote that article a racist, or the legion of writers Antonina mentions and people like David Irving, actually is a cheap shot and does nothing at all to negate or cancel their arguments. If what they write is false, then it is easy enough to counter their arguments. Who should do it? Everyone who disagrees with them. As I have said many times, if we don't, at some point they'll be taken seriously. Time is a great blurrer of truth
plus, they probably love the attention! their whole purpose is to get under peoples skin and to agitate. giving them attention is what they want.
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Old October 18th, 2013, 10:36 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Dog View Post
If what they write is false, then it is easy enough to counter their arguments. Who should do it? Everyone who disagrees with them. As I have said many times, if we don't, at some point they'll be taken seriously. Time is a great blurrer of truth
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plus, they probably love the attention! their whole purpose is to get under peoples skin and to agitate. giving them attention is what they want.
What was it Nietzsche said? Something like, "There are certain ideas that survive only because from time to time some second-rate thinker feels himself capable of refuting them."

Maybe sometimes it's better to ignore certain people altogether? It's a hard one to judge.
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Old October 18th, 2013, 10:41 AM   #8

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The problem as I see it is that time has a nasty habit of distorting things. IF we ignore the Irvings etc of this world, some time in the future, when there are no Holocaust survivors left and the political world has changed (as it does), some moron historian or journalist will say "Hey! Our idea of the Holocaust isn't as clear as we thought. This guy Irving says that....". It'll be revealed as "startling new evidence" and similar. Careers will be built on it and sick ideas passed off as good ones in the name of political expediency. After all, even 100 years ago, our notions of racist history were considerably different from now.

Best to get it out of the way now, because such things are bad keepers.
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Old October 18th, 2013, 11:04 AM   #9
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Yes history does indeed blur thing or two. However it also gives us distance from subjects we look at ...and that gives clearer and more complete sight. It is safe to say that general view about Holocaust will be different in the future than it is now. And I do not think that there is much we can change about it no matter what we do, say or not.

People who insist that there is noting to argue about Holocaust any-more and there is only one way to look at it -the one established by current establishment are as intellectually feeble as those who deny Holocaust happened. There is really not much difference between two.
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Old October 18th, 2013, 11:10 AM   #10
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Also people shouldn't intentionally distort real history by sugar coating it too much etc... because if the facts are too distorted for whatever reason, nationalism or political correctness for example, then people will simply one day say "Well if that was distorted, how do we know this guy (insert racist idiot here) isn't correct...?".... So it's best to be realistic about it all (history) so that people like that cannot then use those distortions as some kind of twisted proof that they are correct.
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