Harvard Study: Waterboarding was torture in American press until 2002

[Bobby]

Originally Posted by Sharks and love

Did they say it wasn't torture? If so why aren't they lining up to say it's not torture?

They're soldiers, they don't line up for public spectacle. Again, define torture.

Many people seem to want to eschew 'torture', however defined, as a moral imperative. In doing so is the implied demand that a sovereign nation must remove from his self defense toolbag an effective weapon. In embracing the 'higher ground of morality' we sacrifice something, and that something is lives. Those who categorically deny torture in any form do not seem to calculate the price of the lives they sacrifice from the ivory towers of theory. The defense that 'torture is ineffective' is disingenuous. Some torture, in some place, has saved lives. Where's the cost benefit analysis? Where does what we want mankind to be acknowledge what mankind is?

[Temperance]

Originally Posted by Bobby

I know for a fact many in the military who have been subjected to the 'guantanamo' style waterboarding as a training regimen for covert activities. None of them told me they cried like babies. Very uncomfortable procedure obviously, but a lot better than being burned alive on the 30th floor or jumping to your death.

Yes because having something done to you in a training excercise by people you know and have been working with is exactly the same as being in prison and having the same done to you. Except its not is it.

[beorna]

Originally Posted by Bobby

'enhanced interrogation techniques'

In a lot of countries imprisoned women and even men were raped. Sex is a normal act. adult ones do it every day. And the most have fun with it. So perhaps raping in prison is an "enhanced interrogation technique" as well and no torture or is it even fun? C'mon it is just a question of definition.

The torture was abolished by modern and democratic countries. If now countries thing it is good to do it again it is a step back to barbarism. the US has to decide if they want to be part of a democratic, civilised world or in one row with inhuman regimes.

[Greyter]

I once read a Harvard Study that concluded that water was wet, No, thinking back, it may have been concluded that water was moist. But then, thinking back, it may have been concluded that water was actually damp.

[Comet]

Originally Posted by Greyter

I once read a Harvard Study that concluded that water was wet, No, thinking back, it may have been concluded that water was moist. But then, thinking back, it may have been concluded that water was actually damp.

So in your scholarly opinion, do you agree with the Harvard Study

[Sharks and love]

Originally Posted by Bobby

Define waterboarding! There are many differing techniques of interrogation called 'waterboarding'. I know for a fact many in the military who have been subjected to the 'guantanamo' style waterboarding as a training regimen for covert activities. None of them told me they cried like babies.

I went through and did some research about whether or not the military uses the same style of waterboarding as the CIA did on terrorists.

Well, it doesn't seem to be the same thing at all.


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""But while the techniques may have been derived from SERE training, a different, more intense brand of waterboarding was used on terror suspects, according to recently released CIA documents.

According to a May 7, 2004, CIA Inspector General special report on interrogation techniques used on terror suspects, which has some parts redacted, "OIG’s (Office of the Inspector General's) review of the videotapes revealed that the waterboard technique employed at (redacted) was different from the technique as described in the DoJ (Department of Justice) opinion and used in the SERE training. The difference was in the manner in which the detainee’s breathing was obstructed. At the SERE School and in the DoJ opinion, the subject’s airflow is disrupted by the firm application of a damp cloth over the air passages; the interrogator applies a small amount of water to the cloth in a controlled manner. By contest, the Agency interrogator (redacted) continuously applied large volumes of water to a cloth that covered the detainee’s mouth and nose. One of the psychologists/interrogators acknowledged that the Agency’s use of the technique differed from that used in SERE training and explained that the Agency’s technique is different because it is 'for real' and is more poignant and convincing."

The report also says the CIA's Office of Medical Services has characterized the SERE waterboarding as "so different from the subsequent Agency usage as to make it almost irrelevant."""

Source:
"The 2004 CIA Inspector General Report on Torture,"
http://documents.nytimes.com/c-i-a-r...gation-methods
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/26/us...s/26intel.html
http://washingtonindependent.com/561...ort-on-torture
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ed-our-own-mi/

[JimR-OCDS]

A Top Interrogator Who's Against Torture

He's the special agent who came in from the cold — and waded straight into the debate over the use of harsh interrogation techniques. Ali Soufan, a former FBI special agent and perhaps the most successful U.S. interrogator of al-Qaeda operatives, says the use of those techniques was unnecessary and often counterproductive. Detainees, he says, provided vital intelligence under non-violent questioning, before they were put through "walling" and waterboarding.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...893679,00.html

[Sharks and love]

Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS

A Top Interrogator Who's Against Torture

He's the special agent who came in from the cold — and waded straight into the debate over the use of harsh interrogation techniques. Ali Soufan, a former FBI special agent and perhaps the most successful U.S. interrogator of al-Qaeda operatives, says the use of those techniques was unnecessary and often counterproductive. Detainees, he says, provided vital intelligence under non-violent questioning, before they were put through "walling" and waterboarding.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...893679,00.html

Thanks for the very relevant link, Jim.

It's nice to see you around again, BTW.

[beorna]

.....to add something to my points, there was a german of arabian descendance kidnapped by the US. He was brought to Syria to get tortured and interrogated. He was released after one or two years, because he was innocent. How do you call these people? collateral damage? What if it is you?