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Old January 9th, 2017, 05:12 AM   #21
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Edward I
Kindly educate me on this, but to my impression it was not the same as the styles of Napoleon or Hitler which was the repetition of the Romans.
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Old January 9th, 2017, 07:42 AM   #22

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Kindly educate me on this, but to my impression it was not the same as the styles of Napoleon or Hitler which was the repetition of the Romans.
He invaded and subjugated Wales, and went to war with Scotland to exert his dominance.
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Old January 9th, 2017, 07:44 AM   #23

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What did Edward I seek to expand into ?
Independant kingdoms of Scotland and Wales
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Old January 9th, 2017, 08:03 AM   #24
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No. England claimed parts of France until the 1500s.
And they took Gibralter.
The garrisoned Malta, Crete and Cyprus at various time. But that's about it.

Taking over Europe required more military might that GB could muster as a naval power.
Not, Edric. England never took Gibraltar. It was a civil war betweeen Habsburg and Bourbons.. An Habsburg fleet consisted by British and Dutch Ships and an Habsburg Army consisted by Austrian, Dutch, British, Spanish, under Spanish flag and on behalf of a Spanish King, Charles III, Gibraltas was taken..

Not British Army, with British flag at all.

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Old January 9th, 2017, 02:13 PM   #25

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Not, Edric. England never took Gibraltar. It was a civil war betweeen Habsburg and Bourbons.. An Habsburg fleet consisted by British and Dutch Ships and an Habsburg Army consisted by Austrian, Dutch, British, Spanish, under Spanish flag and on behalf of a Spanish King, Charles III, Gibraltas was taken..

Not British Army, with British flag at all.

Regards.
Except you yourself said British ships took them there and British soldiers were there. Commander of expedition (George Rooke) was British and British and Dutch marines attacked it. So it would be wrong to say no British flags.

Spanish and Austrian troops didn't arrive until AFTER it had fallen and it was ceded to the British during peace talks. Of the allied ships 16 were Brit and 6 were Dutch.

Last edited by Edric Streona; January 9th, 2017 at 02:19 PM.
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Old January 9th, 2017, 04:42 PM   #26
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Except you yourself said British ships took them there and British soldiers were there. Commander of expedition (George Rooke) was British and British and Dutch marines attacked it. So it would be wrong to say no British flags.

Spanish and Austrian troops didn't arrive until AFTER it had fallen and it was ceded to the British during peace talks. Of the allied ships 16 were Brit and 6 were Dutch.
Not, Spanish trooops landed and the operation was not under British Flags but under Spanish flags in the name of Charles III. And the first trooops to land were Spanish supported the Archduke.

Not any war between Spain and Britain and not an attack under British Flag-on behalf a British King... not.. a Civil war operation with soldiers from Spain-Austria-Netherland-Britain and under the Spanish Flag. The commander in chief it was the Viceroy of Catalonia, Prince of Hesse-Darmstadt.
No British Flag in Gibraltar till 1705 (August).

So.. IT was not an act of war between Spain and Britain... Jamaica, Trinidad, Cartagena de Indias, Buenos Aires, Montevideo, Tenerife, Florida, Honduras, Bahamas, Cuba, Philippines, Cornwall etc etc were acts of war between Spain and Britain...
Gibraltar.. NO. It was a Civil War...the Habsburg side had a Flee (consisted by British and Dutch ships) and an Army (Consisted by Spanish-Dutch-Austrian-British soldiers). The first soldiers to land were Spanish. And Gibraltar was take with Spanish flag and in the name of Charles III.

In any moment British flag was hoisted during the operation (only the Spanish flag in both sides). British Flag was hoisted by first time on August, 1705, exactly One year later... 365 days after the battle. Not british flag during the 1704 battle. And Spanish Troops in both sides: Bourbons and Habsburgs.

From BRITISH ENCLYCLOPEDIA, 1879. VOLUMEN X. Page 586:

In the course of the War of the Spanish Sucession, however, it was taken by a combined English and Dutch fleet under Sir George Rooke, assisted by a body of troops under Prince George of Hesse-Darmstadt. The captors had ostensibly fought in the interest of Charles, Archduke of Austria (afterwards Charles III), but, though his sovereignty over the rock was proclaimed on July 24, 1704, Sir George Rooke, on his own responsability caused the English flag to be hoisted and took possession in the name of Queen Anne. It is hardly to the honour of England that it was both unprincipled enough to sanction and ratify the occupation, and ungrateful enough to leave unrewarded the general to whose unscrupulous patriotism the acquisition was due. The Spanish keenly felt the injustice done to them, and the inhabitants of the town of Gibraltar in great number abandoned their homes rather than recognize the authority of the invaders.

So, Edric..

Not legitime act, but a coward and Perfidious act...
Gibratlar was taken by Spanish-British-Austrian-Dutch Troops in name of a Spanish King (Charles III) and with the Spanish Flag. So.. not battle at all between British and Spanish...
this is not youtube but a serious forum.. Not a military victory. Not a British military victory over Spanish Army.

Have you sources you can prove it was "an act of war" between Spain and Britain... Can you prove it was a battle between British and Spanish and Gibraltar was taken by British Troops with British Flag?

Rooke didnīt know whatīs the Honour. And he dirtied his honor and the honor of his country. (Not me, but a British writer in 19th Century talking about British feats. Gibraltar a Coward act.. one of the most black and miserable acts commited by England).. I can say who wrote something as that...Not any Brave storm by British Army but the famous Perfidious...

Regards
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Old January 9th, 2017, 05:25 PM   #27
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He invaded and subjugated Wales, and went to war with Scotland to exert his dominance.
Ah, that was some kind of nation building of Great Britain that was initiated by England. I don't know if you are Scottish or Welsh and I am sorry if I offended your nationalism, but, Great Britain is the political correctness of English politicians.

Still, he did not attack the continent but created a stronger British Isle. British as it is.
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Old January 9th, 2017, 05:44 PM   #28

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Ah, that was some kind of nation building of Great Britain that was initiated by England. I don't know if you are Scottish or Welsh and I am sorry if I offended your nationalism, but, Great Britain is the political correctness of English politicians.
No, no particular offence, the Scots whipped Eddie Ii's arse, so all's fair

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Still, he did not attack the continent but created a stronger British Isle. British as it is.
Probably because he died before he could invade anyone else.
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Old January 9th, 2017, 05:49 PM   #29
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I think his invasion of those nations within the British isles were akin to the Americans going West and in the process occupied dominions of Spain and the vast land that was the home of the nomad Indian tribes. So it is United Kingdom and so the United States, and I submit that the ruling culture within them is Anglo Saxon. No offense my friend, and I am so objective on this regard.
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Old January 9th, 2017, 07:01 PM   #30

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Not, Spanish trooops landed and the operation was not under British Flags but under Spanish flags in the name of Charles III. And the first trooops to land were Spanish supported the Archduke.

Not any war between Spain and Britain and not an attack under British Flag-on behalf a British King... not.. a Civil war operation with soldiers from Spain-Austria-Netherland-Britain and under the Spanish Flag. The commander in chief it was the Viceroy of Catalonia, Prince of Hesse-Darmstadt.
No British Flag in Gibraltar till 1705 (August).

So.. IT was not an act of war between Spain and Britain... Jamaica, Trinidad, Cartagena de Indias, Buenos Aires, Montevideo, Tenerife, Florida, Honduras, Bahamas, Cuba, Philippines, Cornwall etc etc were acts of war between Spain and Britain...
Gibraltar.. NO. It was a Civil War...the Habsburg side had a Flee (consisted by British and Dutch ships) and an Army (Consisted by Spanish-Dutch-Austrian-British soldiers). The first soldiers to land were Spanish. And Gibraltar was take with Spanish flag and in the name of Charles III.

In any moment British flag was hoisted during the operation (only the Spanish flag in both sides). British Flag was hoisted by first time on August, 1705, exactly One year later... 365 days after the battle. Not british flag during the 1704 battle. And Spanish Troops in both sides: Bourbons and Habsburgs.

From BRITISH ENCLYCLOPEDIA, 1879. VOLUMEN X. Page 586:

In the course of the War of the Spanish Sucession, however, it was taken by a combined English and Dutch fleet under Sir George Rooke, assisted by a body of troops under Prince George of Hesse-Darmstadt. The captors had ostensibly fought in the interest of Charles, Archduke of Austria (afterwards Charles III), but, though his sovereignty over the rock was proclaimed on July 24, 1704, Sir George Rooke, on his own responsability caused the English flag to be hoisted and took possession in the name of Queen Anne. It is hardly to the honour of England that it was both unprincipled enough to sanction and ratify the occupation, and ungrateful enough to leave unrewarded the general to whose unscrupulous patriotism the acquisition was due. The Spanish keenly felt the injustice done to them, and the inhabitants of the town of Gibraltar in great number abandoned their homes rather than recognize the authority of the invaders.

So, Edric..

Not legitime act, but a coward and Perfidious act...
Gibratlar was taken by Spanish-British-Austrian-Dutch Troops in name of a Spanish King (Charles III) and with the Spanish Flag. So.. not battle at all between British and Spanish...
this is not youtube but a serious forum.. Not a military victory. Not a British military victory over Spanish Army.

Have you sources you can prove it was "an act of war" between Spain and Britain... Can you prove it was a battle between British and Spanish and Gibraltar was taken by British Troops with British Flag?

Rooke didnīt know whatīs the Honour. And he dirtied his honor and the honor of his country. (Not me, but a British writer in 19th Century talking about British feats. Gibraltar a Coward act.. one of the most black and miserable acts commited by England).. I can say who wrote something as that...Not any Brave storm by British Army but the famous Perfidious...

Regards
The landing involved British and Dutch marines. Spanish and Austrian troops arrived after, some 2-3 days after the garrison surrendered.
Every British regiment carried a British flag, Every British ship flew a British naval flag if British troops and ships are there then they have their flags.
The opinion piece you quote even says "English flag was hoisted" and as to cowardice .... irrelevant .... but since you bring it up ....

"the Grand Alliance prepared for their assault the priests, women, and children who had taken refuge at the chapel of Europa Point at southern end of the peninsula, began to return to their homes in the town. An English ship fired a warning shot in front of the civilian column forcing them back out of harms way, but the shot was mistaken by the rest of the fleet as a signal to resume fire, and the bombardment began again. Under cover of the guns the landing party did its work.[24]

The foremost sailors clambered into the breached and undefended fort at the New Mole; however, by accident or design the magazine at the fort blew up. Some of the landing party carried lighted gun-matches and, according to Trevelyan, had forgotten the possibility of a powder-magazine. Whatever the cause of the explosion the Alliance suffered between 100–200 casualties.[25] A momentary panic ensued, for the survivors suspected an enemy-laid trap had caused the disaster. There was a rush for the boats, but at this critical moment Captain Whitaker arrived with reinforcements.[23] The landing was supported by a number of Catalan volunteers, from who one of Gibraltar's main spots, Catalan Bay, bears its name.[26] Within a few minutes the attackers had rallied and were proceeding north along the deserted ramparts of the seafront towards Gibraltar. On arriving near Charles V's southern wall of the town, Whitaker halted the sailors and hoisted the Union Flag in a bastion on the shore.[27]

Byng now came ashore with several hundred more seamen. Thus was the town invested by Byng in the south, as well as on its stronger northern side where the marines had landed with Prince George. Meanwhile, the party of the women and children stranded at Europa Point had been captured by English sailors. Rooke had given orders that the prisoners were not to be ill-treated, but the desire to recover these women was a further inducement for the defenders to end their resistance.[28] Seeing all was lost Don Diego agreed to terms that guaranteed the lives and property of those committed to his care. Under the capitulation French subjects were taken prisoner, while any Spaniard who would take an oath of allegiance to 'Charles III' as King of Spain could remain in the town with religion and property guaranteed. However, with the exception of a few families the Spanish elected to depart to the mainland, where shortly afterwards they founded the town of San Roque in sight of their ancient home.[29] Although the Spanish town of San Roque state that it's a town 'donde reside la de Gibraltar', this claim is not totally true as can be read in many books; the Spanish that decided not to remain in Gibraltar went as far away as Algeciras, Jerez and Ronda. A detailed article of all British (and Dutch 1704-1705) Infantry regiments that served at Gibraltar from 1704 up to 1945 can be found in the Gibraltar Heritage Journal, issues 14, 16 and 17, researched and written by V.J.Power (Gibraltar Heritage Trust"

No sign of cowardice there. And until you've been through a battle I strongly suggest you refrain from calling men braver than you cowards. Also note the raising of a British flag by the British.

Now. I'm not sure why I need to prove Britain and Spain were at war as that has nothing to do with how wrong you are.

Prince George of Hesse's Austrian Spanish troops arrived on the 6th August. The Fighting had finished by the 3rd.

Last edited by Edric Streona; January 9th, 2017 at 07:06 PM.
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