Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > Themes in History > Speculative History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Speculative History Speculative History Forum - Alternate History, What If Questions, Pseudo History, and anything outside the boundaries of mainstream historical research


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old January 10th, 2017, 11:20 AM   #1
Citizen
 
Joined: Jan 2017
From: Iceland
Posts: 2
Question If Rome had not existed, how would the world be today?


If Rome had not existed, how would the world be today?

Think deeply and in detail before answering
AntiqueSage is offline  
Remove Ads
Old January 10th, 2017, 12:03 PM   #2
Historian
 
Joined: Aug 2016
From: USA
Posts: 1,220

Seeing how this is your first post, why don't you give us some of your ideas first - convince the rest of us that you're not asking us to do your homework for you.

Welcome to the forum.
Chlodio is offline  
Old January 10th, 2017, 12:52 PM   #3
Citizen
 
Joined: Jan 2017
From: Iceland
Posts: 2
Question


Oh, of course

The world without Rome


Non-Roman Powers:

Persians, Arabs, Ottomans (semitics in general): conquering Iberian and Balkan?

Greeks, Macedonians

Carthage:Would try to dominate the Iberian peninsula?

Hindi

Germans, Vikings: conquering england?

China, Korea

Japan: Would they try to conquer America?

The Mongols and Egyptians disintegrated equally and indifferently as it was in actual history

What would happen to the Celts and the Slavs?

.................................................. .........................
Not england, no Usa, Aus, Can,Nz
Not Spain: Not Latin America
No portugal: no brazil
No France: no quebec, African colonies, no Napoleon
No germany: no hitler
No italy: no musolini
No Byzantium: No Architecture, Scripture, Orthodox Catholicism for the Slavs

Jesus would have died of old age, but Christianity would not have spread outside the Middle East


The gunpowder was invented by the Chinese and arrived through Arabs to Europe in real history, this would continue unchanged, causing wars to change around the world, changing borders easily and quickly.



The big question is, how would modern technology have arisen? Without European nations as we know them,
Are the Japanese, Russians, Germans, Greeks capable of engineering electronic technology and industrial machinery someday?
AntiqueSage is offline  
Old January 10th, 2017, 01:16 PM   #4

notgivenaway's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jun 2015
From: UK
Posts: 4,418

VERY different. in ways we cannot imagine.

Linguistically, even the Germanic, Slavic, Basque, Finnish, Greek and other non-Romance languages have been influenced by Latin.

The European notion of country, empire, and nation.

Architecture. Roads, cities (London, Paris, Marseille, Valencia, Vienna), Christianity as we know it today, morals, cultural norms (August and July as months), the calendar, numerals, more or less the basis of European civilisation.

Most countries in Europe today have roots in the immediate post-Roman period, and they wouldn't exist now as they do without the Romans. With no Romans the exact impetus for the Franks to reach France and name it France doesn't exist. Similar is true of England, Spain, Portugal, even Italy since modern Italians are nothing like the Romans ethnically.

And then due to European colonisation, this spread around the world, but then there may not be colonisation as we know it. European empires were based on the Roman concept of Imperialism.

There may not have been an Ottoman Empire, nor
notgivenaway is online now  
Old January 10th, 2017, 01:37 PM   #5
Lecturer
 
Joined: Sep 2013
From: Oakville, Ontario
Posts: 452

Well, let's say that Rome never existed, that around 387 BCE Brennus and his Gauls sweep down into Italy and burn Rome to the ground, killing everyone.

Most likely they would attempt to settle in Rome's former lands, only to be eventually ejected by the Etruscans, who would likely move into the role that Rome once played in uniting the various tribes of central Italy. The Celts would spread through the rest of Europe in a Celtic Empire, and Carthage would rise unchecked in the meanwhile to dominate the whole Mediterranean. But, without Pompey, piracy would always be a problem.

With no Roman Legions to enforce it there would never be a Pax Romana. Likely these societies would come into constant conflict, but it wouldn't be a total war situation like it was with Rome, so there would be treaties, and concessions, all to bide time before the next challenge, probably from Greek invaders or migrating Germanic tribes.

After 622 CE, without Constantinople's great walls to stop it, the Islamic tide of the Arab conquests rolls over everything and converts it. Fast forward to today, at least half (and more likely two-thirds) of the entire world's population would be Islamic versus a smaller balance of Hinduism and Buddhism in the east.
jalidi is offline  
Old January 10th, 2017, 02:09 PM   #6
Historian
 
Joined: Aug 2016
From: USA
Posts: 1,220

Since an early version of Latin pre-dated Rome, then it's possible Italians today would speak a Latin-derived language, but the other Romance languages would not exist. Britain, France, and Spain might speak a modern form of Celtic.

Good idea about Carthage dominating Spain, but I might go farther and say that Carthage could have dominated the entire Mediterranean. Perhaps Spain, Italy, and possibly France today would speak Phoenician-derived languages.

Christianity would not have spread so easily. Without a collapsing Roman Empire Islam might not have spread so easily to the westward, although it may have still spread eastward toward India. Judaism would be an obscure Middle Eastern religion. Religion in Europe and as transplanted to the Americas might be polytheistic.

Roman law would not exist, including ideas like jurisprudence (the punishment should fit the crime).

Without the Roman Empire I doubt the Germanic tribes, including the Vikings would have had any interest in raiding or invading Western Europe. Britain and France would have been just as poor as Germany and Scandinavia so there would have been nothing to plunder.

Most European countries might look pretty much the same as they do today since most countries have borders consisting of mountains, rivers, or other natural barriers. The Low Countries might not exist since they are to some extent an artificial insert between France and Germany. Britain might be a more unified country with no divisions between England, Scotland, and Wales.

I think modern technology owes more to the Greeks than to the Romans. While the Romans were excellent engineers, they were not especially good scientists. The Greeks were better scientists, and they also gave us our concept of progress - the idea that change is good. Romans did not embrace change. I would go so far as to say the one reason among many for the fall of the Roman Empire was that they could not adapt to a changing world.

Last edited by Chlodio; January 10th, 2017 at 02:25 PM.
Chlodio is offline  
Old January 10th, 2017, 02:10 PM   #7
Archivist
 
Joined: Dec 2016
From: UK
Posts: 192

If there was no Rome then Macedon could've possibly been the super power of that time,
TheMilitaryHistoryAddict is offline  
Old January 10th, 2017, 04:26 PM   #8

Space Shark's Avatar
Praetorian Prefect
 
Joined: Mar 2012
From: Redneck Country, AKA Texas
Posts: 3,409
Blog Entries: 5

There are simply too many butterflies to accurately tell what the world would look like without a major Roman civilization. For all we know Carthage or Macedonia might have taken the role of the Roman Empire in an alternate timeline.

Eventually you're going to be making fantasy assumptions and predictions.
Space Shark is offline  
Old January 11th, 2017, 12:24 AM   #9

johnincornwall's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Nov 2010
From: Cornwall
Posts: 5,540

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chlodio View Post
Since an early version of Latin pre-dated Rome, then it's possible Italians today would speak a Latin-derived language, but the other Romance languages would not exist. Britain, France, and Spain might speak a modern form of Celtic.

Good idea about Carthage dominating Spain, but I might go farther and say that Carthage could have dominated the entire Mediterranean. Perhaps Spain, Italy, and possibly France today would speak Phoenician-derived languages.

Christianity would not have spread so easily. Without a collapsing Roman Empire Islam might not have spread so easily to the westward, although it may have still spread eastward toward India. Judaism would be an obscure Middle Eastern religion. Religion in Europe and as transplanted to the Americas might be polytheistic.

Roman law would not exist, including ideas like jurisprudence (the punishment should fit the crime).

Without the Roman Empire I doubt the Germanic tribes, including the Vikings would have had any interest in raiding or invading Western Europe. Britain and France would have been just as poor as Germany and Scandinavia so there would have been nothing to plunder.
The Germanic tribes were pushed westwards by the Huns. They took advantage of the frozen Rhine and vacuums in Roman power to 'slip through'. So from that view Spain and Italy would all speak Gothic. BUT then again, maybe the Huns would have gone south where the weather is better, leaving all the German tribes where they started??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Shark View Post
There are simply too many butterflies to accurately tell what the world would look like without a major Roman civilization. For all we know Carthage or Macedonia might have taken the role of the Roman Empire in an alternate timeline.

Eventually you're going to be making fantasy assumptions and predictions.
This.

It's one of those 'if the whole world was different what the world be like' threads.
johnincornwall is offline  
Old January 11th, 2017, 11:40 PM   #10

Maki's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jan 2017
From: Republika Srpska
Posts: 1,213

Christianity probably wouldn't be able to spread, if it would even exist.
Maki is offline  
Reply

  Historum > Themes in History > Speculative History

Tags
existed, rome, today



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Civilizations which you wish existed today? greatstreetwarrior Speculative History 59 December 27th, 2015 09:12 AM
Incan Empire Triumph - What if the Inca Empire existed until today? kazeuma Speculative History 7 December 5th, 2014 01:14 PM
What if the empire of Rome never fell, and still existed today? EpicHistory360 Speculative History 8 April 17th, 2012 02:22 PM
Rome never existed Rasta Speculative History 53 March 24th, 2012 06:01 AM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.