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Old March 20th, 2017, 06:18 PM   #1

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1940. Germans successful invasion of England.


I am very sure that this speculative question has been asked before but it usually aimed at a swift and successful defeat of the USSR or at least driving them to the Urals.

My question is, suppose the Germans honored the 1939 Non-aggression Pact between Germany and Russia and didn't attack Russia but instead put all their energies into Operation Sea Lion (The invasion of England) and Secured a successful landing force according to the war plans. Keep in mind that the Russians did quite well under the terms of the treaty.

There several elements to consider. The Germans treated the vanquished very harshly in the East but were more moderate and even polite in the West as they did in the Channel Islands.

Also a consideration is that there were many shared aristocratic connections between Germany and England. The Windsors were in fact, a German family.
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Old March 20th, 2017, 07:12 PM   #2
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Hitler still drew up a list of people to be executed on the invasion of England, while not as brutal as the plans in the east even moderate Nazi occupation would have been far from popular.

Churchill was appointed to reflect British attitudes to fight on, the policy was decided then they went looking for a leader best suited to their intent. Churchill didn't raise to power with great support, in fact his personal /party following was insignificant, he was only installed as other political players decided to select Churchill as the best available leader.

The Windsors may well have German origins but they had become completely English in outlook and attitudes. Queen Victoria on the were British. While some in Britain may well have flirted with Nazism, they were incompatible.

Stalin was always opposed and untrusting ion Hitler Both dictators were eying each other as the ing term enemy. A German invasion of Britain would be shocking to Stalin, the quick defat of France was a shock, the prospect of near total conquest of western Europe by Hitler would have Stalin believing he would be next. Stalin strategy was Hitler would fight the west, while Russia armed and he could attacked an exhausted weakened Germany, Time was on Stalin's side. A German conquest of Britain blows that out of the water, now Germany is getting stronger and it's just a matter of time. Any serious invasion may well lead to immediate Soviet attack.
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Old March 20th, 2017, 07:55 PM   #3

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I think a occupation of Britian would have been handled far different to any other occupation, i imagine the German army being on there best behaviour to try and keep the people from rising up. with lots of bread and circus for the people
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Old March 20th, 2017, 08:06 PM   #4
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That really was not the Nazi way, I just don't think they were capable of behaving themselves, Nazism was rule by thugs, violence, killing , looting is what they did. there would have been people arrested and killed, and the list prepared showed an extremely clumsy understanding of British society.

Churchill was determined to fight, and had prepared to fight dirty, it's very likely that at least some of his preparations would have resulted in action (though not nesscarily effective action) even some half arsed attempt at British guerrilla resistance would likely provoke some brutal response.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book
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Old March 20th, 2017, 08:10 PM   #5

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pugsville View Post
That really was not the Nazi way, I just don't think they were capable of behaving themselves, Nazism was rule by thugs, violence, killing , looting is what they did. there would have been people arrested and killed, and the list prepared showed an extremely clumsy understanding of British society.

Churchill was determined to fight, and had prepared to fight dirty, it's very likely that at least some of his preparations would have resulted in action (though not nesscarily effective action) even some half arsed attempt at British guerrilla resistance would likely provoke some brutal response.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book
From what i understand they behaved themselves in Austria and Czechoslovakia during their occupations. Obviously blood would spill i just mean for the average family going about their business
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Old March 20th, 2017, 08:39 PM   #6
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From what i understand they behaved themselves in Austria and Czechoslovakia during their occupations. Obviously blood would spill i just mean for the average family going about their business
they still arrested and killed large numbers of people. Thy had lists drawn up of people to arrest, and Noel Coward, Nancy Astor, EM Forster, Baden-Powell, HG Wells, CP Snow, it's not going to go down well with the British Public. Having Austrian Jews clean the pavement with toothbrushes, public displays like that is just what the Nazi movement was created for.
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Old March 20th, 2017, 08:51 PM   #7

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Fair enough then
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Old March 20th, 2017, 09:14 PM   #8
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From what i understand they behaved themselves in Austria and Czechoslovakia during their occupations. Obviously blood would spill i just mean for the average family going about their business
" Within a few days of 12 March, 70,000 people had been arrested."
"Over 6,000 Jews were arrested overnight, the majority deported to Dachau concentration camp in the following days"
" Of the more than 65,000 Viennese Jews who were deported to concentration camps, little more than 2,000 survived"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anschluss

"the most important event of the resistance was Operation Anthropoid, the assassination of Reinhard Heydrich, SS leader Heinrich Himmler's deputy and the then Protector of Bohemia and Moravia. Infuriated, Hitler ordered the arrest and execution of 10,000 randomly selected Czechs. Over 10,000 were arrested, and at least 1,300 executed. According to one estimate, 5,000 were killed in reprisals. The assassination resulted in one of the most well-known reprisals of the war. The Nazis completely destroyed the villages of Lidice and Le˛įky; all men over 16 years from the village were murdered, and the rest of the population was sent to Nazi concentration camps where many women and nearly all the children were killed."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German...Czechoslovakia
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Old March 20th, 2017, 09:54 PM   #9

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Quote:
Originally Posted by larkin View Post
I am very sure that this speculative question has been asked before
Yep.

Quote:
My question is, suppose the Germans honored the 1939 Non-aggression Pact between Germany and Russia and didn't attack Russia but instead put all their energies into Operation Sea Lion (The invasion of England) and Secured a successful landing force according to the war plans. Keep in mind that the Russians did quite well under the terms of the treaty.
Was there supposed to be a question there?
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Old March 20th, 2017, 11:25 PM   #10

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Even if the Germans and the Russians honored each others pact, still there was no chance that the Luftwaffe would ever be victorious against the Royal Air Force.

During the Battle of Britain, the Germans were actually giving their best shot in the air war against the Brits, but they did not win. Also, Britain would never be depleted of pilots because the Canadians, Australians and Americans volunteered to help their cousins against the German Nazi. It must be noted that the Battle of Britain happened before the Barbarossa.

The Americans would naturally provide industrial support to Britain which means more war planes to stop the Luftwaffe should be provided to the British.

On top of that Germany was never in a position to beat the Royal Navy. Britain as support to France retreated to their island, but the Germans had not a single chance to beat Britain.
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