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Old November 21st, 2017, 05:02 PM   #1
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What if Socrates introduced 18th-century technology to Athens?


How different would Ancient History be if Socrates introduce every invention from the 18th century?

-Assume that prerequisite technology and knowledge is also introduced


Do the Greeks conquer Persia earlier or fight each more than in OTL?


Would the Medieval Period never exist due to the butterfly effect?



How many decades until the first humans attempt Industrialization?
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Old November 21st, 2017, 05:03 PM   #2

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I am pretty sure Socrates is a literary character. Plato invented him as an alter ego.

A literary character to add some ying to his Noble yang.
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Old November 21st, 2017, 05:04 PM   #3
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Lol why Socrates?
As far as we know he never invented anything.
If you want an inventer try Archimedes
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Old November 21st, 2017, 05:48 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrKap View Post
I am pretty sure Socrates is a literary character. Plato invented him as an alter ego.

A literary character to add some ying to his Noble yang.
Nope. Socrates was a real person, he crops up in too often with too many people, writings (Xenophon also write socratic Dialogs where Socrates speaks Xenophon's thoughts rather than Plato's)

We pretty darn certain that Socrates existed we just don't know much about his Ideas and thinking as he didn't write books, and his appearance in Plato is about plato's ideas. (or Xenophon , or his charactiture in the play Clouds)

And it's pretty hard to disentangle where Socrates ends and Plato's Ideas start.

.
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Old November 21st, 2017, 06:03 PM   #5

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It is controversial. I agree.

I have never heard of that, nor do I follow greek history that closely.

I do know of Herdotus, which on searching I was thinking he'd be the same era as Plato Socrates and Xenophon.


Anyways. Xenophon. Do his writings teach Xenophobia?

I know Herdotus was also known as the "father of lies", so I am unsure if the legacy of historical writings in Greece, follows the cryptic style of "lying" about history. I certainly think the truth is somewhere in there.

Thanks for bringing up Xenophon. I thought the argument of Socrates being a creation rather than a real person was more cut and dried, but now perhaps it is more cloak and dagger?
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Old November 21st, 2017, 06:27 PM   #6
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Anyways. Xenophon. Do his writings teach Xenophobia?
Not at all he's General and concerned with Military matters, like Plato he was a student of Socrates.

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I know Herdotus was also known as the "father of lies", so I am unsure if the legacy of historical writings in Greece, follows the cryptic style of "lying" about history. I certainly think the truth is somewhere in there.
Herodotus is mostly reasonable given what he was working with, he game what information he could and when he dint have much he repeated stories.

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I thought the argument of Socrates being a creation rather than a real person was more cut and dried, but now perhaps it is more cloak and dagger?
There near universal agreement Socrates existed. The problem is we don't know much about his philosophy and Ideas, as what we have is their philosophers and writers using him as literary device, with their words in his mouth, which really isn't socrates ideas.
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Old November 21st, 2017, 08:12 PM   #7
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Lol why Socrates?
As far as we know he never invented anything.
If you want an inventer try Archimedes
I don't want to send Archimedes to an earlier grave
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Old November 21st, 2017, 08:16 PM   #8

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I have heard the argument before.

https://www.debatepolitics.com/relig...r-existed.html


I see it possible the man existed and was a leading cause of a Republic or Oligarchy movement.

Or he was simply a target to which nobody could find because he simply didn't exist.


It could be that the person was totally ignored by foreign politics, and severely famous within his own close circle.
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Old November 21st, 2017, 08:20 PM   #9

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Um... This wiki entry makes me think that perhaps he was a "scapegoat".

Quote:
Perhaps the most interesting facet of this is Socrates' reliance on what the Greeks called his "daimōnic sign", an averting (ἀποτρεπτικός apotreptikos) inner voice Socrates heard only when he was about to make a mistake. It was this sign that prevented Socrates from entering into politics. In the Phaedrus, we are told Socrates considered this to be a form of "divine madness", the sort of insanity that is a gift from the gods and gives us poetry, mysticism, love, and even philosophy itself. Alternately, the sign is often taken to be what we would call "intuition"; however, Socrates' characterization of the phenomenon as daimōnic may suggest that its origin is divine, mysterious, and independent of his own thoughts. Today, such a voice would be classified under the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders as a command hallucination.[98]

Socrates practiced and advocated divination.[99] Xenophon was thought skilled at foretelling from sacrifices, and attributed many of his knowledges to Socrates within his writing "The Cavalry Commander".[99]
As I'd think anyone in a tight circle, in the age of the oracle, would all see visions, otherwise face the scrutiny of those outside of the diviners enlightenment.
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