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View Poll Results: Does Socialism Work?
Yes. (Please post reasoning for choosing this option below) 4 19.05%
No. (Please post reasoning for choosing this option below) 17 80.95%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 21st, 2017, 01:35 PM   #21

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Socialism in my country never worked, they make promises to the Portuguese, not all promises were made. Mário Soares, who was deceased, was a minister and did not fulfill most of his promises with the Portuguese. José Sócrates socialist was minister of Portugal, was the worst of them all, because of his mafias companies and money, was in prison, was news intenacional. There is no honest political party, in my country I am tired of being robbed by the politicians of my Portugal.
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Old December 21st, 2017, 01:38 PM   #22

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Divinespark View Post
So what is the difference between theory and practice?
That practice meets human daily reality.
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Old December 21st, 2017, 01:39 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by AlpinLuke View Post
That practice meets human daily reality.
Can you elaborate further on this point?
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Old December 21st, 2017, 02:29 PM   #24
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The best living standards are in market economies with some governmen entitlements. If government spending rises over 30% of GDP or government debt reaches 100% of GDP, economic health may be in danger. Japan's public debt is over 200% of GDP, but it's almost all internal, and the people, who are great savers, are willing to hold government debt. Outside of Cuba and North Korea, I'm not aware of a truly socialistic country. Most are mixed economies.

In the future some kind of cooperative based economy may develop as automation eliminates jobs. The cooperatives would be union based and the working class would become the investor class. Managers and professionals (the middle class)would be more productive with automation and AI. Alternatively, a guaranteed annual income (GAI) would be a universal government entitlement. I'm not particularly fond of this solution but it's easier to implement and governments usually take the easiest solution.

Last edited by stevev; December 21st, 2017 at 02:31 PM.
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Old December 21st, 2017, 03:42 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by sailorsam View Post
uncontrolled leads to exploitation of workers...
That's not a failing of capitalism, workers can move to other employers


Quote:
...cutthroat business practices (underselling competition to put them out of business), mergers and buyouts that produce monopolies, excessive prices when these monopolies come into being....
This is a potential failing of capitalism. if one corporation is too successful it can create a monopoly (regardless of whether it does it legally or illegally) and thus the marketplace becomes inefficient

Quote:
...massive pollution sometimes (see Beijing smog)
Not a failing of capitalism
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Old December 21st, 2017, 05:13 PM   #26

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Capitalism vs. Socialism is a false dichotomy.

You need aspects of both to have a functional society. Uncontrolled capitalism quickly becomes oligarchic despotism (and eventually, revolution), and Socialism without a market economy and competition doesn't generate enough wealth to support the population, no matter how well it is distributed.
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Old December 21st, 2017, 06:46 PM   #27
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Capitalism needs to be regulated

Socialism is a brake on Capitalism. It can still work provided the brakes aren't applied too hard.
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Old December 21st, 2017, 10:42 PM   #28

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.
socialism is perfect for angels
for beasts , free market with a light but stern over-watch is way better

eventually any society become an aristocracy of some sort ,
every couple of centuries a good bloody revolution with a reign of terror of a few years or so executing 10% of the upper society
and then a return to ordinary peaceful life
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Old December 22nd, 2017, 08:13 AM   #29

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Divinespark View Post
Love that you say it produces monopolies but undersells competition to put them out of business. You realize the full implication of what you are saying right? Every corporation is trying to outdo the other to get rid of them but they somehow come together through mergers to create a super corporation that is somehow immune to the very practices they engaged in order to become a super corporation.
let's use US car companies as an example.

there used to be a ton of them. many were too small or failed to develop quality products and went out of business (Studebaker).
many smaller companies got squeezed during various economic periods (mid 70s gas crisis) and got bought out by bigger companies (Jeep, purchased by Chrysler).

so now in the US we have about five car companies, figuring that foreign companies (Mitsubishi, Mercedes) have some joint ventures.

as long as they stay content we will continue to have four-five-six auto companies. it's not likely any of these will have the capital to undercut the others seriously.

however, imagine a new player with a lot of capital (some Chinese government subsidized company maybe) entering the market with quality vehicles built by near-slave labor selling for 3/4 the price of the existing companies. theoretically they could undersell the others and become the only auto dealer/maker in the US. then they could triple their prices and try to keep out competitors (Korean, Indian).

the pattern seems to be, many small companies at first, gradually settling to a handful of big companies.

technology can be a game changer. several television networks fell by the wayside over the years (Dumont, Mutual) until we had three networks plus PBS (socialism!). then cable and satellite changed the industry and we have multiple channels/networks. but history is repeating itself and the independents are getting bought up (History Channel is owned by A&E Network, which also owns Lifetime and CI Channel).
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Old December 22nd, 2017, 09:03 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M9Powell View Post
In a nutshell greed. Human nature is human nature. Someone's going to be in charge. They will be looking out for #1. I do agree somethings need to be more socialist. Capitalism & health care are a very bad mix.
I've always thought Capitalism and the government funding healthcare go in hand in hand rather than being mutually exclusive.

Capitalism of course is investing to earn a return, and it follows investing in your people, in this case health, is not at odds with Capitalism.

Adam Smith is often held up as the Father of Capitalism. Well, he certainly supported regulation, when it benefitted the working man as opposed to when it benefitted 'the elites'.

And, quite right too.

I'd make a distinction between pooling resources in the form of a government in order to invest in your people in terms of education and health, and wasting money on situations and people who can't be reached.
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