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Old August 21st, 2012, 07:46 PM   #181

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3. The Soviet superiority in both numbers and quality of ground technology is obvious, the t34/85 is better in so many ways to the M4 Sherman and I doubt that the Americans and British had much to bring in against the IS-2 and upcoming IS-3 tanks.
Actually, the Allies would have a clear advantage in quality. One thing you should note is that in WW2, about 2/3 of all casualties were caused by artillery, 20% by infantry weapons, 5-6% by air attacks and 5-6% by tanks and other armored vehicles.

Allied supply of ammunition was superior as equipment quality. And the T-34 was a superior design to the M4, but the quality of the production was inferior. And the British Centurion was in fact superior to any Soviet tank. In fact, the German Panther was superior to the IS-2, IS-3 tanks.

Though, the Soviets win due to the simple fact that they had defeated a far more powerful opponent than the American and British armies, the Wehrmacht. The Wehrmacht had 3,100,000 men sent against the USSR, a force 25% larger than the force the Allies had in Europe and of superior quality (the German army that invaded the USSR in 1941 was the best army of the 20th century). Therefore, if the 3.1 million men of the best army were defeated, 2.5 million men of less effective armies would be defeated as well.
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Old August 21st, 2012, 07:55 PM   #182

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I think the IS series could take on any Allied tank of the period.
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Old August 22nd, 2012, 01:47 AM   #183

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I think that Soviets would had a lot of problems with supplying their troops because most of their supply lines would go trough Poland.
In case of Western-Soviet war most of people in Poland would start fighting against Soviet army or rather not start but continue the fight on the larger scale. Actually untill 1949 in Poland died a lot of Soviet soldiers and there were tens of thousands of partisans who did contiunue the fight in spite of the fact that there was no chance for any help from the west.
One thing is sure, the Soviets would not feel safe behind their frontlines, the raillways, bridges, roads would be under permanent attack of Polish forces. And probably big part of Polish army in the east would also turn against the Soviets. One of the problems with Polish army which was formed in Soviet Union was that thousands of soldiers deserted and joined resistance, and all this inspite of the fact that there was no war between western allies and SU.
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Old August 22nd, 2012, 02:09 AM   #184

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Is there a more detailed report or analysis of the General Staff on their recommendation against the offensive proposed in Operation Unthinkable? I would think the findings of generals actually looking at the real Soviet forces in the real time would be pertinent.
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Old August 22nd, 2012, 02:24 AM   #185

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I think that Soviets would had a lot of problems with supplying their troops because most of their supply lines would go trough Poland.
In case of Western-Soviet war most of people in Poland would start fighting against Soviet army or rather not start but continue the fight on the larger scale. Actually untill 1949 in Poland died a lot of Soviet soldiers and there were tens of thousands of partisans who did contiunue the fight in spite of the fact that there was no chance for any help from the west.
One thing is sure, the Soviets would not feel safe behind their frontlines, the raillways, bridges, roads would be under permanent attack of Polish forces. And probably big part of Polish army in the east would also turn against the Soviets. One of the problems with Polish army which was formed in Soviet Union was that thousands of soldiers deserted and joined resistance, and all this inspite of the fact that there was no war between western allies and SU.
a problematic factor but just like the real events the polish forces could not hold on all to long.
The Russians used the Polish population and tricks against these Partisans and they would do it again with equal effectiveness.

the polish army in the east? it would indeed probably turn against the soviets but how much of a problem is this? these forces would be just a small number of divisions against the overwhelming red army.
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Old August 22nd, 2012, 03:06 AM   #186

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a problematic factor but just like the real events the polish forces could not hold on all to long.
The Russians used the Polish population and tricks against these Partisans and they would do it again with equal effectiveness.

the polish army in the east? it would indeed probably turn against the soviets but how much of a problem is this? these forces would be just a small number of divisions against the overwhelming red army.
I think that it would be rather partisan war. If you fight on the front such situation behind the frontline certainly isint an advantage. Especially considering the lenght of supply lines from SU. The Soviets would have been forced to engage hundrieds thousands of soldiers behind the frontline and in the same time to fight on the front.

And btw - the last anti-communist partisan in Poland was killed 1963

Last edited by Mosquito; August 22nd, 2012 at 03:11 AM.
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 11:37 PM   #187

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I think that Soviets would had a lot of problems with supplying their troops because most of their supply lines would go trough Poland.
In case of Western-Soviet war most of people in Poland would start fighting against Soviet army or rather not start but continue the fight on the larger scale. Actually untill 1949 in Poland died a lot of Soviet soldiers and there were tens of thousands of partisans who did contiunue the fight in spite of the fact that there was no chance for any help from the west.
One thing is sure, the Soviets would not feel safe behind their frontlines, the raillways, bridges, roads would be under permanent attack of Polish forces. And probably big part of Polish army in the east would also turn against the Soviets. One of the problems with Polish army which was formed in Soviet Union was that thousands of soldiers deserted and joined resistance, and all this inspite of the fact that there was no war between western allies and SU.
Hilarious. Polish nationalism is indeed a kind of mental pathology. You think a bunch of partisans would put a serious dent in the logistics ability of the largest army in the world? I guess it was the Poles who launched Gagarin in space too.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 12:14 AM   #188

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In all of this discussion no one has mentioned the Chinese who were allied with the Americans. How many men could they have provided, being armed by The U.S.? How would they have affected the war effort coming into the U.S.S.R. from the west and center?
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 12:38 AM   #189

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Its a long way to Moscow, ask Herr Hitler, and there was only ever one evil empire and that was Microsoft (bless em)
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 04:58 AM   #190

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I agree with you 100 percent. I was just putting it out there that within a month and a half of Hiroshima/ Nagasaki, the Soviets would have been new-mown grass had the pushback that Patton and Churchill desired, actually had taken place.

@Poly.......I don't understand how relevant it would be that the Soviets, in our reality, would have a couple of bombs in a few years, as the US would have them in less than two months. In this alternate reality being discussed, if this fight had happened, the Soviets would have been knocked out of the box way before that.
Exactly, what I thought about, because the U.S. and U.K. had the air power that was much superior than the Soviets as of 1945, plus the atomic bomb.
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