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Old November 23rd, 2012, 06:15 AM   #191

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Hilarious. Polish nationalism is indeed a kind of mental pathology. You think a bunch of partisans would put a serious dent in the logistics ability of the largest army in the world? I guess it was the Poles who launched Gagarin in space too.
Well, in 1795 three autocratic imperial powers _ Tzarist Russia, Habsburg Austria and militaristic Prussia wiped the proto-democratic Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth off the map of Europe.

They all fell ignominously and Poland survived.

The Soviet empire was suppossed to be such a big deal and it collapsed like the dysfunctional house of cards it was.

We're still here

Autocratic imperial ideals in any guise - holy empire or Soviet bombast - are withdrawn currency. Ideals hatched in the multicultural tolerant PLC of the 16th century are very much it.

Last edited by antonina; November 23rd, 2012 at 06:22 AM.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 09:50 AM   #192

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If the Chinese got into the action as Wenge suggests I think it would be doable. The Russians would be fighting on 3 fronts, not to mention the allies would have naval superiority, air superiority, nuclear superiority and with the Chinese, numerical superiority.

But my God, it would have been one hell of a meat grinder.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 10:51 AM   #193

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If the Chinese got into the action as Wenge suggests I think it would be doable. The Russians would be fighting on 3 fronts, not to mention the allies would have naval superiority, air superiority, nuclear superiority and with the Chinese, numerical superiority.

But my God, it would have been one hell of a meat grinder.
The massed human waves attacks of the Sino-Vietnamese war makes me expect a huge meatgrinder.
Especially since the Chinese would have to fight in the harsh Siberian climate where they probably would not be able to equip all their soldiers with proper clothing.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 11:27 AM   #194

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So it takes the US army a while to push 20% of the German army to Berlin....... how much is the toughness level raised by going against 100% of the Soviet Army?
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 12:58 PM   #195

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What about equipping the French, Latvians, Lituanians, Estonians, Turks and the Austrians with American weapons because U.S.S.R. was a common enemy at that time? Plus using the British armor and its combined air superiority with the U.S. and I don 't think the Soviet infantry was that tough to fight without the air cover to combat that of the British and the Americans with full industrial manufacture of all war machines without any destruction over their factories in the U.S. The Japanese army can also be utilized by the U.S. under its command plus the Chinese, so, maybe its going to be a success.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 01:15 PM   #196

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What about equipping the French, Latvians, Lituanians, Estonians, Turks and the Austrians with American weapons because U.S.S.R. was a common enemy at that time? Plus using the British armor and its combined air superiority with the U.S. and I don 't think the Soviet infantry was that tough to fight without the air cover to combat that of the British and the Americans with full industrial manufacture of all war machines without any destruction over their factories in the U.S. The Japanese army can also be utilized by the U.S. under its command plus the Chinese, so, maybe its going to be a success.
Dear dagul the Soviets had been operating under fascist air superiorityfor a long time. They would not be bombed into submission
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 02:07 PM   #197

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What about equipping the French, Latvians, Lituanians, Estonians, Turks and the Austrians with American weapons because U.S.S.R. was a common enemy at that time?
Easier said than done, such solutions take months, and many of those territories are way behind Soviet lines any way.

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Plus using the British armor and its combined air superiority with the U.S.
I would think the Soviet armour would have been one of its strengths (what good armour did Britain have by the way)

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The Japanese army can also be utilized by the U.S. under its command
Again easier said than done. Their army had definately seen better days, huge cultural differences, language differences and mutual emnity and mutual superiority complexes. Good luck getting good morale on that situation.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 02:27 PM   #198

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Dear dagul the Soviets had been operating under fascist air superiorityfor a long time. They would not be bombed into submission
I certainly agree with you, sir, but, the Germans at that time were also defending from the air power of the U.K. and the U.S. so their Luftwaffe were not able to give its optimum power to support their infantry and such was manifested in the Battle of the Kursk.

In the case of the possible attack by Patton, it is evident that the U.K. and the U.S. shall have only one focus, and that's to bleed the Soviets in contrast to the Germans who were facing different fronts and war was on their own nation, by which the U.S. had all the latitude to manufacture their war machines without any interference from bombing or shelling.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 02:43 PM   #199

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Easier said than done, such solutions take months, and many of those territories are way behind Soviet lines any way.

I would think the Soviet armour would have been one of its strengths (what good armour did Britain have by the way)

Again easier said than done. Their army had definately seen better days, huge cultural differences, language differences and mutual emnity and mutual superiority complexes. Good luck getting good morale on that situation.
I do agree with you that it shall take months to arm them, but, they can still be utilized to maintain the occupied territories just in case there would be successful attack by the Americans and the British.

Indeed the Soviet armor would be its strengths but the British had nice tanks too like the MK !V which can match those of the Soviets, thus, on such aspect, I do not think the Soviets can claim superiority against the combined British and U.S. armor. Besides the U.S. had M26Pershing by 1945.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 08:39 PM   #200
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Its a long way to Moscow, ask Herr Hitler, and there was only ever one evil empire and that was Microsoft (bless em)
Well the thread title is a little misleading. It was not Patton's plan to invade Russia, it was his plan to kick them out of central and eastern Europe. I very much doubt this involved trying to march on Moscow.

The one reason I think it may have been succesful was because how many casualties Russia had taken during WWII. Somewhere around 9-10M military deaths and 13M civilian deaths. In total over 13% of their population was dead, roughly 1/4 were dead or wounded. At some point they would be unable to find able bodied men to fight.
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