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Old November 24th, 2012, 07:37 PM   #201

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The soviets would crush the allies
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Old November 25th, 2012, 10:12 PM   #202
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I don't think the rest of the world would have cooperated with the USA, most of them would have joined the USSR. Eventhough, the Americans would stand a big chance of victory, as they were relatively "fresh" and the Russians were exhausted after all that fighting.
After that, the USA would have a bad time because the country would be full of rebels causing trouble and it would be constantly raided by their neighbours. But with the help of some European powers, I think they could have "normalised" the situation there and create a Russian republic like the one we have now, but more like a puppet state.

It would have been great, actually. All the money that was spent in the space and military race would have been spent in something else. Although that could have halted the technological progress in some way. But who knows? Maybe instead of researching for new weapons they would have progressed in the medical fields, or communications. And that's far better than all the wars and the crap that happened during the second half of the 20th century.

Anyways, I'm being optimistic. There's a big possibility that the USA had turned into a repressive and despotic world police, fighting only for their own matters. And in that context they would be unstoppable. So the world would look like 1984 novel.
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Old November 26th, 2012, 12:04 AM   #203

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Quote:
Originally Posted by emperor of seleucid View Post
The soviets would crush the allies
Would you mind expanding on that a bit chap?

I think I've already posted an answer in this thread, but what the hell.

I think it'd be likely that it would turn into one big bloody stalemate. Hell the Western allies may well have been ablle to push the Soviets out of most of Eastern Europe but it would have come at a great cost in both materiel and men and possibly descended into a morass.

The only slim hope is that Stalin would possibly back down on a few possessions in Europe e.g. Poland and East Germany. I don't think he would have been prepared to go to the brink.

In several places in this thread it is also said that the Western Powers would have Air superiority......I'm not so sure about that.
The Soviet Airforce by late in the war had some very good aircraft types in service and a lot of good pilots, most of the chaff had been separated in the previous years of fighting.
The there is Soviet armour to consider......as well as the sheer number of troops they had.
So I think they had enough counterpoints to western power to make any war a difficult proposition.

However you view the Soviets/USSR and the following cold war, I'm glad that this never happened.
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Old November 26th, 2012, 02:11 AM   #204

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The land invasion would be a disaster,technically the t-54 the world's first MBT became operational in jan 1945.There was nothing comparable in the world at that moment.It would be like facing the t-34 for the first timeall over again.only this time with a battle hardened veteran crew.
Logistics would be another massive problem due to trans atlantic supplies,the more closer u got to the russian hinterland the more problematic as the infrastructure of mainland europe was devastated.Considering all american divisions were mechanized this would be a huge problem.
The advantage for the allies would be in the air with the p-51 mustang.
Atomic bomb production rate was very slow at that time and would the b-29s be able to reach the soviet industrial bases in the urals,i think unlikely.
Also they would need to establish air superiority and get bases close to the soviet homeland to reliably deliver the atom bombs to the main cities of western russia.This would need some advances from the land forces to get air bases closer to russia for air superiority over russia,otherwise achieving this would be difficult.
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Old November 26th, 2012, 02:22 AM   #205

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I would really like for all of those who are espousing soviet superiority to look at and examine your opinions. What I would like examined most is the capability of movement by the russians and the developed areas east of Moscow.

If the allies were fortunate enough to invade the soviet sphere and they acted the opposite of the Germans. If they gave Coca Colas and Hershey Bars to the people along the way while they were pushing the russians back, what do you think would be the result in this case.

I believe you can make any case you wish for stalin but in the end he was a tyrant and he harmed russia more than he helped it.
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Old November 26th, 2012, 02:27 AM   #206

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pablo668 View Post
Would you mind expanding on that a bit chap?

I think I've already posted an answer in this thread, but what the hell.

I think it'd be likely that it would turn into one big bloody stalemate. Hell the Western allies may well have been ablle to push the Soviets out of most of Eastern Europe but it would have come at a great cost in both materiel and men and possibly descended into a morass.

The only slim hope is that Stalin would possibly back down on a few possessions in Europe e.g. Poland and East Germany. I don't think he would have been prepared to go to the brink.

In several places in this thread it is also said that the Western Powers would have Air superiority......I'm not so sure about that.
The Soviet Airforce by late in the war had some very good aircraft types in service and a lot of good pilots, most of the chaff had been separated in the previous years of fighting.
The there is Soviet armour to consider......as well as the sheer number of troops they had.
So I think they had enough counterpoints to western power to make any war a difficult proposition.

However you view the Soviets/USSR and the following cold war, I'm glad that this never happened.
I wish it would have happened. Win or lose stalin needed to be confronted. Other than mao he was the most evil man of the 20th century and I do not believe that his evil could have won against the western allies.
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Old November 26th, 2012, 02:30 AM   #207

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Wrong at that point of time,communist propaganda would portray u as the new fascist aggressors and the populace after 4 years of suffering will believe them,the attack on them will automatically give them the moral high ground.
Just at the end of ww2 that is the time period we are talking about,there was great euphoria,unity and hope among the soviet populace that after their enormous sacrifices they were going to be rewarded.Their hopes had not yet been dashed.That would begin a bit later.At that point of time stalin was a hero in russia.
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Old November 26th, 2012, 02:32 AM   #208

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Quote:
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I wish it would have happened. Win or lose stalin needed to be confronted. Other than mao he was the most evil man of the 20th century and I do not believe that his evil could have won against the western allies.
Wrong.
“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.” -sun tzu.

That's what the allies did eventually.
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Old November 26th, 2012, 02:35 AM   #209

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Quote:
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Wrong at that point of time,communist propaganda would portray u as the new fascist aggressors and the populace after 4 years of suffering will believe them,the attack on them will automatically give them the moral high ground.
Just at the end of ww2 that is the time period we are talking about,there was great euphoria,unity and hope among the soviet populace that after their enormous sacrifices they were going to be rewarded.Their hopes had not yet been dashed.That would begin a bit later.At that point of time stalin was a hero in russia.
Have you considered what the Americans did for Russia in the 1920's when there was no food to be found there. I think you made a complete knee jerk reaction to my post. I do not believe the russian peasants would react to the British and Americans in any negative manner regardless of what ever propaganda the communists decided to try to use.

stalin was never a hero to the common russian. He was just the only one they were allowed to praise.
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Old November 26th, 2012, 02:37 AM   #210

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Quote:
Originally Posted by harbinger View Post
Wrong.
“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.” -sun tzu.

That's what the allies did eventually.
Sun Zi was a fool. He never took in to account the actuality of human emotion.
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