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Old April 21st, 2018, 06:01 AM   #1

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If Allied forces launched Operation Barbarossa


How will describe the US, Canada, and UK (you may include France) if they will invade the Soviet Union from Poland?

How will you describe the Allied offensive with the use of tanks, planes and soldiers? (In a scenario that no nukes will be used)
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Old April 21st, 2018, 08:30 AM   #2
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How would they even get in a geographic position to launch such an attack? It just beggars believe. Had, for some - to my mind unimaginable - reason, the USA, the UK and France decided to embark on a war against the USSR, surely there were far better - amend that, not quite as bad - alternative routes?
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Old April 21st, 2018, 09:18 AM   #3

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Rapid advance while everyone is taken by surprise. Then swallowed up and spat out by a war machine in which man power losses are irellevent.
Now. Japan, China, Brit Empire, Germany, France combined might make some actually gains... but the uk, USA and Poland alone will fare about aswell as the Reich.
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Old April 21st, 2018, 10:43 AM   #4
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During the allied intervention into their civil war 20+ years earlier there were allied british and american troops in the northern port of Arkhangelsk. Port Vladivostok in the far east was also occupied by american and japanese troops. French forces occupied Odessa on the black sea coast and romanians helped them out. Japanese, italians and romanians fought against central powers during the great war by the way ergo were WW1 winners. Of coarse allies during WW2 would have to convince Turkey, a neutral country to allow their transport ships to pass the straits to be able to embark on USSR black sea coast like they did during WWI. I dont understand why they should invade through Poland?

Last edited by At Each Kilometer; April 21st, 2018 at 10:52 AM.
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Old April 21st, 2018, 04:40 PM   #5

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I don't know but it seems like it's underway at this moment..
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Old April 23rd, 2018, 02:15 PM   #6
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I don't know but it seems like it's underway at this moment..
Moscow will fall by Christmas!
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Old April 24th, 2018, 11:58 AM   #7

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Timeline? In 1941.....impossible - take what UK, USA, France and Canada had in 1941 and assume no war started by Germany - they simply don't have the logistics and men in uniform to invade Russia the way Germany did. Doubt they make it much out of Poland if tried. If the invasion is kept MUCH smaller to start to fit actual capability- the Russians don't have Navy or Air Force to stop a build up of forces. But I don't see how it matters. The Bear and Uncle Joe are pissed off and can build up Russian forces faster then Allies can build up sufficient forces to defeat Russia in a LONG war. Why even try?

1945 - end of WW2 - this is debated often - should we have listened to Patton? Just on firepower of both sides (especially with Allied supplies cut off to the USSR) - USSR gives the western allies a good punch in the mouth to start things off....but the advantage in air power and supplies ultimately results in USSR losing. No way they can hold off Western Allies if a maximum effort is applied. How to do that and keep fighting Japan.....hard decisions would have to be made. We had the ability to do it at this time - just not the political will.

Today - I don't see it. Not without all of NATO included - even then it would be tough to pull off - losses would be HUGE on both sides and as soon as Putin thinks the jig is up he is lighting off nukes to try and stop NATO.
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Old April 24th, 2018, 02:34 PM   #8
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Allies win, because they aren't the Nazi's and won't start mass slaughtering the inhabitants. They probably would have less early military success as much of Barbarossa's early success was due to how it caught Stalin off guard and I think Stalin would see the Allies coming and be better prepared. The Allies would be at a considerably smaller numerical disadvantage(actually if you add up all the countries you listed, the Allies have more people) but I don't think it will matter as much because again the Allies would be trying to defeat the Soviet Union in the conventional sense you defeat an government, they wouldn't be trying to empty the Soviet Union of it's massive population and it's hard to imagine the Soviets being as motivated to fight the Allies even if the situation is initially less perilous.

Allied victory.
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Old April 24th, 2018, 02:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Rolls View Post
How would they even get in a geographic position to launch such an attack? It just beggars believe. Had, for some - to my mind unimaginable - reason, the USA, the UK and France decided to embark on a war against the USSR, surely there were far better - amend that, not quite as bad - alternative routes?
Mike
Most likely scenario(still unlikely) I'm thinking would be where the US enters the war early(let's say late 1940) and the Nazi's never get a chance to invade the USSR because they are still distracted in the West. Western Allies defeat Nazi Germany which includes Western Poland which is how they would get to the proper geographic location. Important to note without Barbarossa(German one) USSR would still be seen as an enemy to the Allies because they had the non aggression pact with Hitler and had seized Eastern Poland, the Baltics and had invaded Finland. PR considerations aside(I do not think a war with the USSR would be easy to sell after defeating the Nazi's, honestly don't think war at all would be easy to sell in the US) this would be the next logical step.

I mean Alaska would be a far superior and convenient route regardless especially for the US and Canada(and you'd think the USSR would strike Alaska in this scenario) as it doesn't require putting your supply lines through a nation you just conquered.
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Old April 25th, 2018, 10:29 AM   #10

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The Allies had better generals and were more humble in learning and adapting than the Nazis. Moreover, they had the beest intelligence, and could attack from multiple fronts if required.

The Royal Navy, with US Navy support, could block up the Black Sea to stop Soviet fleets from escaping and/or cutting off supplies. The same is true of the Archanglesk route north of Scandinavia.

A US/Canadian force could invade Siberia or the Amur region, or join up with Chinese forces through China, or British forces in India.

A multiple offensive would drain the Soviets' resources. Moreover, the USSR didn't have as much heavy bombers as the Western Allies, and with bases from China, India, the Middle East, and Europe, it would hard for Stalin to retaliate against all of them.
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