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Old June 8th, 2018, 04:53 PM   #11

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Who?

Hitler was far from alone in seeking to establish some sort of authoritarian state. But it's extremely hard to see anyone other than Hitler in NSDAP doing it. None of the other NSDAP leadership seemed capable of unifying the party solidly and presenting a strong electoral appeal.

Schleicher might have remained Schleicher as Chancellor but hard to Schleicher opr some similar figure undertaking the revolution and remaking of society that Hitler did. Noneof teh right Wing politicians outside teh NSDAP seem capable either.
While unlikely, there is the possibility of some little-known person from the German far-right becoming much more popular in the event that Hitler was killed.
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Old June 8th, 2018, 04:54 PM   #12

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You mean der Führer, correct?
As Pedro used the word in the first sentence of his post, ja ?
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Old June 8th, 2018, 05:23 PM   #13
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While unlikely, there is the possibility of some little-known person from the German far-right becoming much more popular in the event that Hitler was killed.
possible but likely? I odn't think so.

Hitler was a pretty unique mix. And they were no similar persons either in the NSDAP or in the right generally. It's really hard to see another NSDAP uniting the party into a effective force.

While some for of Authoritarian Government was on the cards the through Nazification of German society the revolution that was Nazism is not. Ludendorff could have maybe been the figure head of some authoritarian government but hardly popular, and inedpt politically. Hartd to see teh Generals steping up Schleicher is the only real prospect and that would hardly have been a totalitarian state. Alfred Hugenberg was to strong to be iginred in the DNVP and totally incapable politically. There wasn't a lot of talent on the right of German politics,
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Old June 8th, 2018, 05:37 PM   #14

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Let's say Hitler dies from gas inhalation towards the end of WWI (he was actually in hospital for this towards the end of the war).

Germany still loses, of course, and the Kaiser abdicates. The Entente impose the Versailles Treaty still, since there is no reason not to. The Weimar state still suffers from a sick economy, and there is resentment building up over thee harsh Treaty.

Hitler had the success he did since he was a strong orator and single-minded, and could provide a vision for Germany in the dark 1920s. but then who else could have done this, if he weren't alive? Could Rommel? Or an aristocratic Nazi like von Runstedt? Or could there have been opportunity for a communist, or even neo-Imperial advocate? Maybe somebody would look to get Kaiser Wilhelm back, or his son/heirs?

Since Hitler was the right man to lead the Nazis in its infancy, due to his personality and oratory, if he didn't exist then they may not have got far. I suspect it couuld have been a communist party that stole this mantle, and any WWII could have been fought as a capitalist/communist war. Would this mean Stalin and this new German communist leader were close allies? Maybe. If so, and a war still broke out in the late 1930s, then new fronts would have emerged, and possibly China would have been a prominent ally for the British, French, and Americans, given Soviet threats to India, China, and Canada/USA in the Northern Pacific.
The Communists had no chance to gain power in Germany, at least not in a revolutionary way. They made their move early on, but were crashed. Hitler had nothing to do with it, and I fail to see how he was a tool for containing them in all of his political career; the threat was contained regardless. If someone wanted to give credit for preserving the Weimar Republic and foiling a Communist takeover, then this should go to the Socialists, who were devoted to their democratic vision of socialism. Their historic party, the SPD, still a major one in Germany, is the oldest of the country.

If Hitler wasn't around, or someone with similar political capabilities to lead the Nazis, maybe they wouldn't get that far. But they would still be a political force to be reckoned with. And it had much less to do with the Versailles Treaty than with the '29 Crash and the Great Depression that followed. It hit Germany so hard that it destroyed whatever stability the Weimar Republic had fought so hard to create, seemingly making it through until then. Desperate people turn to desperate solutions, however. So yes, a polarisation of politics was due after '29, but to what extent and with what results depends on so many variants that is hard to tell.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German...election,_1928

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German...election,_1930
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Old June 8th, 2018, 06:36 PM   #15

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And they were no similar persons either in the NSDAP or in the right generally.
Even among the lower-ranking members?
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Old June 8th, 2018, 06:45 PM   #16
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Once the SPD was wiling to use the army or Frei Corps against the Communists there was no chance of a communist takeover.
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Old June 8th, 2018, 06:49 PM   #17

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Once the SPD was wiling to use the army or Frei Corps against the Communists there was no chance of a communist takeover.
Completely agreed.

Also, wouldn't this have been the best option from the SPD's part? I mean, I doubt that the German Communists were willing to tolerate democracy in Germany whereas there was more of a chance of getting the German Army to support German democracy--albeit a hope that ultimately proved to be fruitless after the Great Depression.
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Old June 8th, 2018, 06:56 PM   #18
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Even among the lower-ranking members?
Who knows. Maybe but it's drastic assumption. leaders don;'t suddenly emerge from nowhere as a rule,

Without Hitler it's hard to see the NSDAP unifing as a party rather than a collection of regional and ideological factions.
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Old June 8th, 2018, 06:58 PM   #19

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Who knows. Maybe but it's drastic assumption. leaders don;'t suddenly emerge from nowhere as a rule,

Without Hitler it's hard to see the NSDAP unifing as a party rather than a collection of regional and ideological factions.
OK; understood.

Also, are the mainstream German right-wing parties going to be much stronger during the Great Depression in this scenario?
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Old June 8th, 2018, 07:00 PM   #20
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Completely agreed.

Also, wouldn't this have been the best option from the SPD's part? I mean, I doubt that the German Communists were willing to tolerate democracy in Germany whereas there was more of a chance of getting the German Army to support German democracy--albeit a hope that ultimately proved to be fruitless after the Great Depression.
the SPD and KPD hated each other, a lot. The KPD went to the streets if successful it's unlikely they would have good feelings about the SPD. I'm not quite sure about the KPD early (1919-1921) but later I'm pretty sure they would have banned all other parties and gone down a semi-soviet model, of the one party state.

The other Right wing parties and the Centre Party did a deal with the Nazis, how did that work out?
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