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Old June 8th, 2018, 07:24 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Futurist View Post
OK; understood.

Also, are the mainstream German right-wing parties going to be much stronger during the Great Depression in this scenario?
Under Franx Von Papen the administration was called "the Cabinet of Barons", the other right wing parties just did not have "mass market" politicians. they were dominated by conservatives, big industrialist money and monarchists, none of them had flair or mass appeal. Which is why the whole flirtation with Hitler by figures on the right started.

the Main Right Wing party DNVP (Nationalists) was dominated by Alfred Huggenberg, weak, unpopular personality, splintering rather than uniting his party, he was too strong for another real leader to emerge but to weak to be viable as national leader.
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Old June 9th, 2018, 12:43 AM   #22
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Hitler was a horrible human being, but he wasn't a loser. Closest comparison is some sort of evil religious prophet. Superb speaker, diabolical manipulatation skills, many said he was hypnotic in his ability to get others to do what he wanted without them fighting back or often even getting upset.
Oh he was... 4 years in the army during a war and he makes it to corporal only... then a failed and disgruntled artist in Vienna.... then wrote a garbage book... and then of course we know how his political stint ended

"hypnotic in his ability to get others to do what he wanted without them fighting back or often even getting upset" .... some said the same about Stalin... this sounds like an excuse for not standing up to these bullies.... Plus many german generals report some very tough discussions with Hitler, with him going hysterical... what, his hypnotic powers faded ?

Superb speaker ? Really ? We have videos, and there is nothing suberb about his speaking...Anyone trying that today would be laughed off the stage.. Lots of smoke and mirrors , so its really the guys who directed/staged this who are the geniuses for making this guy appear great... Remember with the right set up teen age girls will throw their panties at the likes of Justin Bieber.... and even Mussolini got his moments....
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Old June 9th, 2018, 12:46 AM   #23
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Who knows. Maybe but it's drastic assumption. leaders don;'t suddenly emerge from nowhere as a rule,

Without Hitler it's hard to see the NSDAP unifing as a party rather than a collection of regional and ideological factions.
Correction.... its not about Hitler, its about anyone ruthless and unprincipled enough..... and there seems to have been no shortage of those in the NSDAP
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Old June 9th, 2018, 01:34 AM   #24
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Correction.... its not about Hitler, its about anyone ruthless and unprincipled enough..... and there seems to have been no shortage of those in the NSDAP
ruthless and unprincipled isn't the question, there was no lack with those credentials, though Hitler was perhaps the least encumbered by principles and ideology . Most of the NSDAP were in per-existing opposing cliques and it would be difficult for those to break out into a combined leadership role. None them had the package of talents the Hitler had.
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Old June 9th, 2018, 01:39 AM   #25
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Superb speaker ? Really ? We have videos, and there is nothing suberb about his speaking...Anyone trying that today would be laughed off the stage.. Lots of smoke and mirrors , so its really the guys who directed/staged this who are the geniuses for making this guy appear great... Remember with the right set up teen age girls will throw their panties at the likes of Justin Bieber.... and even Mussolini got his moments....
His contemporaries say otherwise. He was recruited as a propagandist by the Military and they were very impressed with Hitler as a speaker. He was sent to infiltrate the NSDAP by the military and wound up running it. Too many first hand accounts say how much people were impressed. Yeah I'm not. But many of today politicians that are regarded as good performers I just don't see how people swallow their baloney, but they do. He was a very divisive figure at the time, and his speeches/propaganda was about emotion people wanted to believe.

Hitler's life and Rise has been extensively researched. There is no shadow puppet masters. Plenty of people thought they could pull Hitler's strings, but he got the best of them and ran his own race,
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Old June 9th, 2018, 02:31 AM   #26
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Hitler's life and Rise has been extensively researched. There is no shadow puppet masters. Plenty of people thought they could pull Hitler's strings, but he got the best of them and ran his own race,
I was not refering to puppet masters... its about staging grandiose shows, light effects, sound effects, color choices etc.... I doubt Adolf did that himself
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Old June 9th, 2018, 03:01 AM   #27
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I was not refering to puppet masters... its about staging grandiose shows, light effects, sound effects, color choices etc.... I doubt Adolf did that himself
The Nazis did know how to put on a show. And their stage management of events was pretty good.

However reports of Hitlers ability at speaker predate the Nazis having the resources to do this. When the army was using him as a speaker/rabble rouser his ability as a speaker was noted. It's why he was selected to 'inflitrate' the NSDAP. As well as everyone associated with the early days Hitler (though of course cult of personality makes a lot of the testimony suspect, in that those attending have generally bought into the Hitler legend )
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Old June 9th, 2018, 03:45 AM   #28

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There was no end of People working towards some sort of authoritarian Regime. in Germany in the 1920s/1930s howver they were not particularity successful. I can't see another NSDAP leader being as sucessful Rohem or Strasser bothers just were not gong to sell the NSDAP on the popular enough to get there. Ludendofff was just past it by the 1930s and too politically Isolated. Genr Schlelcher was the 'political' General and without Hitler might have worked as a front for the Army, but I doubt it.
Ludendorff is said to have lost his mind towards the end of his life. So, he was never likely.
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Old June 9th, 2018, 04:56 AM   #29
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Ludendorff is said to have lost his mind towards the end of his life. So, he was never likely.
yeah he was not much of a player but there was the attempted Putsch. But was pretty unhinged at the end of WW1 had his son's body at HQ ( a pilot) and refused to bury him (very last weeks on the war) IIRC. But one of the few Generals the was up for crazy political stuff. more as a figurehead some regime can put up, but not the guy to put a coalition of coup partners together, and pretty unpopular with many in the Military,
'
But looking at Major figures that could have had pull with the population, Hindenburg did but was past active political life. The End of Wiemar was conspiring around Hindenburg, vob Papen, Schliecher, Oskar Hindenberg

Without Hitler, maybe Schliecher would have continued longer and turned into some sort of longer lasting Authoritarian Regime. But it would not have been anything like the Nazi top down radical change of society,
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Old June 10th, 2018, 03:17 AM   #30

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Hitler was a loser and if he could get to power then most anyone who was ruthless enough with no principles could....
He didn't achieve much in his life up until he left the German Army. But he will go down forever as a noted figure, albeit for bad stuff. That's not being a loser.
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