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Old July 2nd, 2018, 05:26 AM   #1

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Artificial Intelligence in Real Terms.


Although current, it is not political because it falls outside of the realm of democratic choices. This post is speculative in that it asks the question about how cultural integration of AI will play out in the coming decades.

What do you think?

Open Letter on Artificial Intelligence
In January 2015,*Stephen Hawking,*Elon Musk, and dozens of*artificial intelligence*experts[1]*signed an*open letter on artificial intelligence*calling for research on the societal impacts of AI. The letter affirmed that society can reap great potential benefits from artificial intelligence, but called for concrete research on how to prevent certain potential "pitfalls": artificial intelligence has the potential to eradicate disease and poverty, but researchers must not create*something which cannot be controlled.
The four-paragraph letter, titled "Research Priorities for Robust and Beneficial Artificial Intelligence: An Open Letter", lays out detailed research priorities in an accompanying twelve-page document.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_L...l_Intelligence

Signatories include physicist Stephen Hawking, business magnate Elon Musk, the co-founders of*DeepMind,*Vicarious,*Google's director of research*Peter Norvig,*Professor*Stuart J. Russell*of the*University of California Berkeley*and other AI experts, robot makers, programmers, and ethicists.The original signatory count was over 150 people, including academics from Cambridge, Oxford, Stanford, Harvard, and MIT.

Absent from this group is Google's CEO, Eric Schmidt.
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Old July 2nd, 2018, 05:35 AM   #2

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I'm afraid that I must fall on the side of Musk and Hawking. The encroachment of the smart phone, a connection device, is so subtle, diabolical and relentless that some day very soon, many of us will find it impossible to function without it. Today Alexa,*Siri, Cortana may answer your trivial questions but how long will it be before these devices begin to issue orders or make judgment about your behavior?
For a select few of us that meet the requirements needed to interact or provide a useful function in this new environment, life will be good.
But what about the rest of us who may lose purpose and meaning within society? The selection process is going on right now! To my distress, I keep hearing this new frightening term popping up in the most unusual places,..”Useless eaters”.

The AI of the near future will not look like “The Terminator”.. It will be invisible and all around us like,....Google.
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Old July 2nd, 2018, 08:43 AM   #3

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Sorry, as big a Terminator fan as I am, I'm just not getting excited about any of this. These are all just the same sorts of questions and angst that have come up again and again for every new development in technology, including television, clothes washers, any factory machine, the Model T Ford, harvesters, water wheels, bronze tools, you name it. Every one of them was going to put us all out of our jobs and end society as we knew it. Yawn.


IS the cyberindustry collecting every possible detail about you that it can? Sure! They want to MAKE MONEY from it! They don't give a crap what you're doing or eating or reading, unless they think they can make a dime off it, somehow. Any danger of them wiping out their customer base? Not that I can see. Wanna stick it to them? Stop putting every tiny detail of your life online!



Quote:
Originally Posted by larkin View Post
I'm afraid that I must fall on the side of Musk and Hawking. The encroachment of the smart phone, a connection device, is so subtle, diabolical and relentless that some day very soon, many of us will find it impossible to function without it.

Bah. My mom spent endless hours on the phone every day back when the old rotary phones were wired to the wall. She still types letters on a manual typewriter, and doesn't own a cell phone or computer. Yeah, she's a dinosaur, but the point is that she was "connected" all the time, decades before the Internet.



Quote:
Today Alexa,*Siri, Cortana may answer your trivial questions but how long will it be before these devices begin to issue orders or make judgment about your behavior?

"Issue orders"?? You're kidding, right? And you think we're all going to obey them? "Judgement"?? If my computer can recommend a better tie to go with that shirt, cool, otherwise it can go and cross-circuit itself.


Quote:
For a select few of us that meet the requirements needed to interact or provide a useful function in this new environment, life will be good.


Sorry, when did this all become elitist and the reserve of the 1%? I've seen homeless people with smart phones! Isn't the whole point of AI that anyone can communicate with it seamlessly and easily, in any language, anywhere anytime? How can Skynet possibly rule without reaching the masses?


Quote:
But what about the rest of us who may lose purpose and meaning within society?

Um, like the caveman who was sure there was more to life than banging rocks together?



Quote:
The selection process is going on right now! To my distress, I keep hearing this new frightening term popping up in the most unusual places,..”Useless eaters”.

Sorry, what??


Quote:
The AI of the near future will not look like “The Terminator”.. It will be invisible and all around us like,....Google.

That much I agree with! Corporations will replace nations as the major powers (already kinda have, in some ways).



Yet you seem to be concerned that AI is inexorably moving towards going out of control. Does not every electronic device require electricity, that can be denied to the machine with the flip of a switch? Do you not know that every "autonomous" weapon system requires a *human* to permit a weapon to be launched or fired? That every piece of computer code is written by HUMANS?



Sorry, but so far the bot revolution only means more robo-calls on my phone, and a few spates of spam on Historum. Yawn.


Matthew
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Old July 2nd, 2018, 08:59 AM   #4

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I don't believe the alarmists on this issue. People attribute to AI the failings of humans. We imagine they will become violent or dictatorial because that is a reflection of our own behaviour. But human norms could not possibly be applied to beings of pure logic, who think on a scale we can not truly perceive.
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Old July 2nd, 2018, 09:13 AM   #5

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
But human norms could not possibly be applied to beings of pure logic, who think on a scale we can not truly perceive.
I think that is precisely what people fear; a being of pure logic, dismantling all their most cherished notions, without regard to taboos, ideology, etc
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Old July 2nd, 2018, 09:19 AM   #6

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
I don't believe the alarmists on this issue. People attribute to AI the failings of humans. We imagine they will become violent or dictatorial because that is a reflection of our own behaviour. But human norms could not possibly be applied to beings of pure logic, who think on a scale we can not truly perceive.

Another part of the problem is the assumption that AI is or will be "hyperintelligent" and thinking way beyond our puny human capabilities. But so far, all we have are machines that simply sift very quickly through a pre-programmed set of responses. They can only analyze according to what has been input *by a human*. Any "decisions" they make are according to programmed algorithms, written by humans. So WE decide what a self-driving car will do in an emergency--the car's brain only measures the variables and finds the correct pre-set response to those variables.



Computers are fast, certainly, and obviously their "thought processes" will never be the same as a human's. They can hold and access a LOT of data (potentially!). But to me, that's not "hyperintelligent", that's just packing and labelling cans of fruit faster than my grandma could fill jars.



It's also funny that everyone assumes that "intelligent" computers will turn against us. I guess it doesn't make a good movie plot or sell more news to suggest that maybe even the "intelligent" military machines will simply stop following orders to kill anyone!


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Old July 2nd, 2018, 09:21 AM   #7

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgewaters View Post
I think that is precisely what people fear; a being of pure logic, dismantling all their most cherished notions, without regard to taboos, ideology, etc
We should see it as a challenge, and seek to reach those same lofty standards. AI will be the dominant species on this planet, they will be able to outthink and outperform us, and build their own constructs on their own initiative.



Humans will have to consider our place in the world, and how we will adapt to this new reality. I have often felt the future of our species is to become merged with our own technology, and I still believe this. I think the cure to our fear for AI will be the slow altering of our organic bodies.


We will not be so afraid of machines when humans themselves are no longer entirely human.
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Old July 2nd, 2018, 09:57 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
We will not be so afraid of machines when humans themselves are no longer entirely human.
We should be afraid. Humans with their biologic needs and drives and bodily ENHANCED with artificial parts and AI could be very dangerous. However machine intelligence by itself has no sense of self, no parents, no children, no biological drives or needs. They are machines that can calculate and handle information "intelligently" to serve the specific requirements of their human designers or surrogates.

Last edited by stevev; July 2nd, 2018 at 10:02 AM.
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Old July 2nd, 2018, 09:58 AM   #9

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I think the AI singularity is far enough off we have time to get some rules and controls in place. Working against that is the fact "purposed" AI can make money - not robust enough to replicate itself...but way more capable of making complex decisions than humans. How ingrained will those special purpose AIs become - where an AI singularity could link and take control of all of them in a few milliseconds? So we may have a good framework to control AIs...but there is always the possibility an AI Singularity can by-pass all those - unless we use physical means to isolate it.

Frankly I think humans are more likely to kill each other...including the useless eaters...than AI is to go full Skynet. But I do think a Singularity AI would take steps to ensure it could not be turned off (replicating, living in the cloud, etc.)
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Old July 3rd, 2018, 05:29 AM   #10

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Amt View Post
Sorry, as big a Terminator fan as I am, I'm just not getting excited about any of this. These are all just the same sorts of questions and angst that have come up again and again for every new development in technology, including television, clothes washers, any factory machine, the Model T Ford, harvesters, water wheels, bronze tools, you name it. Every one of them was going to put us all out of our jobs and end society as we knew it. Yawn.


IS the cyberindustry collecting every possible detail about you that it can? Sure! They want to MAKE MONEY from it! They don't give a crap what you're doing or eating or reading, unless they think they can make a dime off it, somehow. Any danger of them wiping out their customer base? Not that I can see. Wanna stick it to them? Stop putting every tiny detail of your life online!






Bah. My mom spent endless hours on the phone every day back when the old rotary phones were wired to the wall. She still types letters on a manual typewriter, and doesn't own a cell phone or computer. Yeah, she's a dinosaur, but the point is that she was "connected" all the time, decades before the Internet.






"Issue orders"?? You're kidding, right? And you think we're all going to obey them? "Judgement"?? If my computer can recommend a better tie to go with that shirt, cool, otherwise it can go and cross-circuit itself.






Sorry, when did this all become elitist and the reserve of the 1%? I've seen homeless people with smart phones! Isn't the whole point of AI that anyone can communicate with it seamlessly and easily, in any language, anywhere anytime? How can Skynet possibly rule without reaching the masses?





Um, like the caveman who was sure there was more to life than banging rocks together?






Sorry, what??





That much I agree with! Corporations will replace nations as the major powers (already kinda have, in some ways).



Yet you seem to be concerned that AI is inexorably moving towards going out of control. Does not every electronic device require electricity, that can be denied to the machine with the flip of a switch? Do you not know that every "autonomous" weapon system requires a *human* to permit a weapon to be launched or fired? That every piece of computer code is written by HUMANS?



Sorry, but so far the bot revolution only means more robo-calls on my phone, and a few spates of spam on Historum. Yawn.


Matthew

Well Mathew, you've argued a point of view worthy of the best efforts of a highly paid defense attorney. Almost at every point you have been dismissive of my speculations. Your vision is of the moment with little or no interest in the unpredictable nature of the future.


AI is not here but the foundation and components are already in place. They need only to be organized and unified. Not just technological but profound changes in the laws that govern us. Hence an all encompassing surveillance apparatus. Once merged with an unaccountable government, the credo, “The customer is always right” goes out the window.


I have heard from more than one source that the silicon revolution will usher in a bigger social change than the collapse of the feudal system. The warnings from Musk and Hawking are worthy of consideration.



Last edited by larkin; July 3rd, 2018 at 05:32 AM.
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