Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > Themes in History > Speculative History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Speculative History Speculative History Forum - Alternate History, What If Questions, Pseudo History, and anything outside the boundaries of mainstream historical research


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old June 10th, 2010, 11:22 AM   #1

History Chick's Avatar
Genealogist
 
Joined: Jun 2010
From: Colorado Springs (PA at heart)
Posts: 3,184
What if Anne Boleyn never existed?


I saw there was another topic about what if England had never broken with Rome... but what about taking it a step further and speculating on what would have happened if Anne Boleyn had never existed? Would Henry have just wound up with some other ambious protestant mistress who demanded she be his wife, promising to give him a son? Or would he have stayed with Katherine and never split from Rome?

Or what about if Anne had managed to have a surviving son?
History Chick is offline  
Remove Ads
Old June 10th, 2010, 02:40 PM   #2

tjadams's Avatar
Epicurean
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: Texas
Posts: 25,362
Blog Entries: 6
Re: What if Anne Boleyn never existed?


First question:
Surely knowing Henry's drive for a male heir, it just would have been someone else.
Second:
Henry would have kept Anne, but treated her the way he treated his first wife.
tjadams is offline  
Old June 19th, 2010, 07:56 PM   #3
Citizen
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2
Re: What if Anne Boleyn never existed?


Quote:
Originally Posted by History Chick View Post
I saw there was another topic about what if England had never broken with Rome... but what about taking it a step further and speculating on what would have happened if Anne Boleyn had never existed? Would Henry have just wound up with some other ambious protestant mistress who demanded she be his wife, promising to give him a son? Or would he have stayed with Katherine and never split from Rome?

Or what about if Anne had managed to have a surviving son?
I truly believe that if Anne never came into Henry VIII's life, Henry VIII probably would had stayed with Katherine of Aragon. Henry VIII wanted and needed a son, but he also needed to be in love. So I do not think it would have been someone else. I do not believe a lot of women would not have even dream of a king leaving his wife for them, nor do I believe they would been willing to wait as long as Anne did. I believe most would have felt uneasy about replacing a belove queen.
luvprue1 is offline  
Old June 22nd, 2010, 06:00 PM   #4

Melisende's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2007
From: Australia
Posts: 1,585
Re: What if Anne Boleyn never existed?


It would be highly dependant upon if his next conquest was of a similar vein as Anne - if so, history repeats (so to speak) - if not, possibly just another in what would be a long line of mistresses.

Would Henry have legitimised his young son (ala John of Gaunt) - quite possible. Would Katherine have died under mysterious circumstances - quite possible.
Melisende is offline  
Old June 22nd, 2010, 08:34 PM   #5

skizzerflake's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Mar 2010
From: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 2,141
Re: What if Anne Boleyn never existed?


Quote:
Originally Posted by History Chick View Post
I saw there was another topic about what if England had never broken with Rome... but what about taking it a step further and speculating on what would have happened if Anne Boleyn had never existed? Would Henry have just wound up with some other ambious protestant mistress who demanded she be his wife, promising to give him a son? Or would he have stayed with Katherine and never split from Rome?

Or what about if Anne had managed to have a surviving son?
It would have been somebody else. Henry HAD to have an heir and it had not happened with Katherine. Unfortunately, considering that he had six wives and did not manage to produce a suitable male issue, an objective physician would probably conclude that Hank was shooting blanks (at least for male kids). That sort of diagnosis, however, would probably have resulted in the MD finding his head in a basket, so it had to be that his wives were "barren". Considering that the church opposed divorce or casual annulment, this was going to be a problem, Anne notwithstanding.
skizzerflake is offline  
Old June 26th, 2010, 07:30 AM   #6

Comnena's Avatar
Lecturer
 
Joined: Oct 2009
From: Behind a white screen
Posts: 386
Re: What if Anne Boleyn never existed?


1. Would Henry have waited? From when he fell in love with Anne Boleyn until he finally married her, he spent all his nervous energy on getting an annulment. He often mentioned his conscience when referring to the great matter and it is likely that this meant his unease. So it is likely he would have tried to find another way to obtain a legitimate son (perhaps have the duke of Richmond legitimized?).

2. Anne would have stayed, but perhaps would have been murdered at some point by someone else (especially after Henry fell out of love). Imagine her, with her vengeful nature, be the mother of the next king. Cromwell, the imperialist faction, other catholics and god knows who else (she made many enemies) would have felt severely threatened by her.
Comnena is offline  
Old June 26th, 2010, 03:18 PM   #7

Volkov's Avatar
Lecturer
 
Joined: Feb 2010
From: A riddle wrapped in an enigma.
Posts: 450
Re: What if Anne Boleyn never existed?


Henry was desperate to avoid another english civil war, he would have done anything in his power to get a male heir, Pope and the rest of Europe be damned.

2: Considering how much he favored Jane Seymour, due largely to the fact that she managed to produce a male heir, I think he would stay with Anne in hopes of producing more male heirs.
Volkov is offline  
Old June 26th, 2010, 03:21 PM   #8

Volkov's Avatar
Lecturer
 
Joined: Feb 2010
From: A riddle wrapped in an enigma.
Posts: 450
Re: What if Anne Boleyn never existed?


Quote:
Originally Posted by skizzerflake View Post
It would have been somebody else. Henry HAD to have an heir and it had not happened with Katherine. Unfortunately, considering that he had six wives and did not manage to produce a suitable male issue, an objective physician would probably conclude that Hank was shooting blanks (at least for male kids). That sort of diagnosis, however, would probably have resulted in the MD finding his head in a basket, so it had to be that his wives were "barren".
He managed to get a male heir with Jane Seymour and another illegitimate one with another Jane, so it's going to be a bit more complicated than that.
Volkov is offline  
Old June 26th, 2010, 09:28 PM   #9

Comnena's Avatar
Lecturer
 
Joined: Oct 2009
From: Behind a white screen
Posts: 386
Re: What if Anne Boleyn never existed?


Another related question:

What if Henry had died not long after the birth of Elizabeth? Say early 1534.
Comnena is offline  
Old June 26th, 2010, 10:29 PM   #10

skizzerflake's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Mar 2010
From: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 2,141
Re: What if Anne Boleyn never existed?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Volkov View Post
He managed to get a male heir with Jane Seymour and another illegitimate one with another Jane, so it's going to be a bit more complicated than that.
It probably is, but Edward was always weak and died at 15. I'm not sure about the other one, but if all English people had Henry's reproductive success, the country would be gone. Considering that one of a King's major duties is to produce a suitable heir plus a few backups, something was seriously amiss there but veneration of Kings prohibited the obvious conclusion.
skizzerflake is offline  
Reply

  Historum > Themes in History > Speculative History

Tags
anne, boleyn, existed



Search tags for this page
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What if humanity never existed? Coelophysis Speculative History 64 April 11th, 2012 08:57 AM
Did Anne Boleyn have 6 fingers? okamido European History 12 July 24th, 2010 06:22 PM
Anne Boleyn; Guilty or Innocent Tudor chick European History 100 January 19th, 2010 02:45 PM
Help with Anne Boleyn work SofiBell History Help 7 December 8th, 2009 07:27 AM
Catherine of Aragon vs. Anne Boleyn Duchess European History 83 October 28th, 2009 03:36 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.