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Old July 2nd, 2010, 04:20 AM   #1

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The Teutonic Knights vs The Knights Templar.


Which of these two knightly orders was the mightiest and who would prevail, the conquerors of the Baltic, or the guardians of the holy land? I don't know what would make them fight short of the pope letting the Teutonic Knights loose on the Knights Templar once he hears about their alleged occultism and idolatry instead of just ordering them dissolved.

Personally, I'm inclined to think that the Teutonic Knights would win.

Last edited by Volkov; July 2nd, 2010 at 06:58 PM.
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 05:42 AM   #2

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Re: The Teutonic Knights vs The Knights Templar.


Well, this battle is going to have to take place sometime in the 13th Century, or the first couple years of the 14th Century. Both orders would have had more or less identical weapons, armor, training, individual fighting styles, and group battle tactics. The only way you could even tell them apart would be the colors of their shields (black and white vs. red and white)..

The Teutonic Knights were prepared to use "native" auxiliaries - e.g. Prussians, Lithuanians, etc. These could supply support on foot. The Templars, on the other hand, were an exclusively mounted force that didn't even use turcopoles, let alone infantry.

In the late 13th/early 14th Centuries, I am also thinking the average Teutonic Knight was seeing more fighting than the average Templar. So I am inclined to vote for the Teutonic Order here.
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 06:41 AM   #3

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Re: The Teutonic Knights vs The Knights Templar.


On the other hand, we could argue that the Templars at their height of power and prosperity were a much greater and wealthier organization to be reckoned with with far more and better organized resources in manpower, monies, and influence to draw upon. So if we move beyond a simple one-off battle to a much greater protracted conflict between the two orders, then the Teemplars might have the upper hand in terms of the bigger picture.
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 06:45 AM   #4

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Re: The Teutonic Knights vs The Knights Templar.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DIVUS IVLIVS View Post
On the other hand, we could argue that the Templars at their height of power and prosperity were a much greater and wealthier organization to be reckoned with with far more and better organized resources in manpower, monies, and influence to draw upon. So if we move beyond a simple one-off battle to a much greater protracted conflict between the two orders, then the Teemplars might have the upper hand in terms of the bigger picture.
I would be inclined to agree with this. But the OP had me under the impression that this would just be a single battle. In a war, yes I think the superior resources and connections available to the Templars at that time would give them an upper hand.
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 07:07 PM   #5

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Re: The Teutonic Knights vs The Knights Templar.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DIVUS IVLIVS View Post
On the other hand, we could argue that the Templars at their height of power and prosperity were a much greater and wealthier organization to be reckoned with; with far more and better organized resources in manpower, monies, and influence to draw upon. So if we move beyond a simple one-off battle to a much greater protracted conflict between the two orders, then the Templars might have the upper hand in terms of the bigger picture.
The Teutonic knights were well known for taking on powers that should have defeated them in an straight out duel, such as Novgorod, Lithuania, the Prussian clans, Poland, and managing to pull a victory in the cases of Lithuania and Prussia. After the Templar knights are declared fair game by the papacy and the knights are let loose, the Teutonic knights can wear them down with their constant influx of new members to replace fallen ones and the use of christianized natives, much like how they eventually wore down Prussia and Lithuania. Though Lithuania bit the dust much more quickly than the Prussians, who stubbornly fought on for more than half a century.

But the Templars would have the initial advantage in money and manpower, and if they can work quickly enough before the Teutonic crusade can get into full motion, they can claim victory.
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 11:45 PM   #6

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Re: The Teutonic Knights vs The Knights Templar.


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Originally Posted by Salah ad-Din View Post
The only way you could even tell them apart would be the colors of their shields (black and white vs. red and white)..
Not always, Templers sometimes used a black and white motif.
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 11:48 PM   #7

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Re: The Teutonic Knights vs The Knights Templar.


And Teutonic Knights, (see shield in top right)

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Old July 4th, 2010, 05:14 PM   #8

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Re: The Teutonic Knights vs The Knights Templar.


All things being equal, I'd say it's too close to call. As Salah ad-Din said, they were virtually identical. There's nothing in it that seems could swing it either way, looking at an individual battle of equally-sized forces.
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