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Old August 2nd, 2010, 03:36 AM   #1
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The Byzantines defeat the arabs and turks( arabs and later turks)


Hi im new here although İ have been reading the forum for a while but not posting .
İ was just wondering earlier today what would provinces of the byzantine empire like egypt ,syria, palestine and anatolia be like today if the arabs and turks had never conquered them( assume that they kept the persıans out too) ...would they have remained christian and hellenized ..and with large amount of greek or hellinized populations like in Alexandria and Antioch in the classical period ...and if that was the case would these areas be more classified as ' european / western culture ' nowadays or at least close to the west?.
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Old August 2nd, 2010, 11:29 AM   #2

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Re: The Byzantines defeat the arabs and turks( arabs and later turks)


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Hi im new here although İ have been reading the forum for a while but not posting .
İ was just wondering earlier today what would provinces of the byzantine empire like egypt ,syria, palestine and anatolia be like today if the arabs and turks had never conquered them( assume that they kept the persıans out too) ...would they have remained christian and hellenized ..and with large amount of greek or hellinized populations like in Alexandria and Antioch in the classical period ...and if that was the case would these areas be more classified as ' european / western culture ' nowadays or at least close to the west?.
I should first find an Ortodox name to imagine it.

It wouldn't be much different because Byzantine was also eastern, with direct connection with Persians, an other mideastern.

But being western is also religious issue for many Christians yes they would be called western.
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Old August 9th, 2010, 03:19 AM   #3

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Re: The Byzantines defeat the arabs and turks( arabs and later turks)


A major historical event occurred in the 8th century. The Roman pope cut a deal with the Frank king Pepin (or Pippin) circa 755 which set apart what would become the "West" from Byzantium. The Franks became the sword-bearing guardians of the papacy, and the popes - the heads of the universal church which provided unity to early Europe in the aftermath of the West Roman Empire's disintegration - would not look toward the east, but toward the north and west for a future relationship. A catholic Europe would develop that was often in conflict and rivalry with orthodox Greek Byzantium.

Per your speculative situation, a good example might be Orthodox Russia. Russia, although christian, has never been a Western entity (despite Peter the Great's efforts.) It's possible a surviving Byzantium would have been similar (though, no doubt the way things go in the world, Byzantium and Russia would have probably come into conflict with each other.)

So, I guess, if the Byzantines, or East Roman Empire, or Roman Empire, had survived, those provinces you mentioned would have been eastern in the way Orthodox countries are eastern.

By the way, the development of the Ottoman Empire is an amazing historical story. It's one of the few, very, very few, nomad empires in the history of civilization which actually endured (nomads didn't have much capacity for the administration it took to run an empire.) The Grand Turk was the last military threat to Europe (and the Europeans feared and respected him) until the post-WW II Soviets. Turkish peoples occupy a huge geographical area of the earth, but they don't get much press.
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Old August 12th, 2010, 03:48 AM   #4

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Re: The Byzantines defeat the arabs and turks( arabs and later turks)


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By the way, the development of the Ottoman Empire is an amazing historical story. It's one of the few, very, very few, nomad empires in the history of civilization which actually endured (nomads didn't have much capacity for the administration it took to run an empire.) The Grand Turk was the last military threat to Europe (and the Europeans feared and respected him) until the post-WW II Soviets. Turkish peoples occupy a huge geographical area of the earth, but they don't get much press.
Btw Ottomans were not a nomad empire. It is not Turkish people who occupy a huge area, better to say Turkic people. Turks are different people than Central assian historically nomad tribes.
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Old August 18th, 2010, 08:07 AM   #5
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Re: The Byzantines defeat the arabs and turks( arabs and later turks)


In some ways I think this alters history a little more. With a more westernized middle east, the Turks don't become as great a threat to the Byzantine Empire, yes the empire was so corrupt it was bound to fall eventually, however the empire would have lasted beyond 1453. A major reason the Europeans headed west was because of the closing of the trade routes to China from the Turks, with the Byzantine empire still alive, that puts the Age of Discovery behind a little.
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Old August 19th, 2010, 08:44 PM   #6
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Re: The Byzantines defeat the arabs and turks( arabs and later turks)


No Armenian Genocide
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Old August 20th, 2010, 03:54 AM   #7

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Re: The Byzantines defeat the arabs and turks( arabs and later turks)


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In some ways I think this alters history a little more. With a more westernized middle east, the Turks don't become as great a threat to the Byzantine Empire, yes the empire was so corrupt it was bound to fall eventually, however the empire would have lasted beyond 1453. A major reason the Europeans headed west was because of the closing of the trade routes to China from the Turks, with the Byzantine empire still alive, that puts the Age of Discovery behind a little.
Persian could obviously take the role of Turk.

Turks didn't close the trade routs. The trade route was important part of the economy. Europeans heading toward west is nothing more than empiralistic motive. Slavery, free resources, free raw materials..
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Old August 20th, 2010, 02:37 PM   #8

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Re: The Byzantines defeat the arabs and turks( arabs and later turks)


Istanbul would still be called Constantinople
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Old August 20th, 2010, 02:50 PM   #9

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Re: The Byzantines defeat the arabs and turks( arabs and later turks)


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Istanbul would still be called Constantinople
İstanbul was another name for Constantinople, during the time of East Rome as well.
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Old August 26th, 2010, 02:42 PM   #10
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Re: The Byzantines defeat the arabs and turks( arabs and later turks)


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İstanbul was another name for Constantinople, during the time of East Rome as well.
Istanbul was never an official name though, before 1453.
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