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September 2nd, 2010, 01:29 PM
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#31 | | Misanthropologist
Joined: Aug 2010 From: Wales Posts: 8,463 | Re: Conan the Barbarian vs Irish king Slaine
Is Conan backed by Robert E Howard?
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September 2nd, 2010, 01:43 PM
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#32 | | Is not really a Thegn
Joined: Dec 2009 From: The Moon Posts: 3,656 | Re: Conan the Barbarian vs Irish king Slaine Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamWeaver Is Conan backed by Robert E Howard? | Well Robert E Howard is dead... But if he was still alive, then yes he would.
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September 2nd, 2010, 01:47 PM
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#33 | | Misanthropologist
Joined: Aug 2010 From: Wales Posts: 8,463 | Re: Conan the Barbarian vs Irish king Slaine
Conan then
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September 2nd, 2010, 07:04 PM
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#34 | | Lecturer
Joined: Sep 2009 From: London, England Posts: 264 | Re: Conan the Barbarian vs Irish king Slaine Quote:
Originally Posted by Thegn Ansgar Not for Howard though, he considered the fictional Cimmerians to be dark haired Celts, with blue/grey eyes. | Actually, Howard did loosely base the fictional Cimmerians on the historical Cimmerians (the naming was clearly intentional), though he imagined his version of the Cimmerians as a dark proto-Celtic people. Since the Hyborian Age is supposed to be before the last Ice Age, that might probably explain the somewhat darker appearance. Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Not neccessarily. Many Irish and Welsh have black hair | I know they do, but it's much more common for them to have brunette/ginger/blonde hair than it is for them to have raven black hair. It's even more rare to see Celts with both raven black hair and bronze skin, though there are a few famous ones like Sean Connery and Catherine-Zeta Jones. Quote:
Originally Posted by Inanna This is a cliché, you'll be surprised about how much spanish are blondie with white skin (but, obviously, not as much as in the north of Europe). Actually, I am blondie  , mi mother and grandmother has dark red hair (not this orange one of the Irish) and we're all white skin and spanish
And I go with Slaine. I loved the comics and, come on, he even can defeat chuck norris!! | It depends on whereabouts Spain. People from northern Spain usually have lighter skin/hair/eyes, while people from southern Spain usually have darker skin/hair/eyes. It's the same in a lot of other countries (where people in the southern parts of a country are usually, on average, darker than those in the northern parts), not just around the Mediterranean, but across the world.
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September 3rd, 2010, 04:56 AM
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#35 | | Academician
Joined: Sep 2010 From: Madrid, Spain Posts: 68 | Re: Conan the Barbarian vs Irish king Slaine Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagger
It depends on whereabouts Spain. People from northern Spain usually have lighter skin/hair/eyes, while people from southern Spain usually have darker skin/hair/eyes. It's the same in a lot of other countries (where people in the southern parts of a country are usually, on average, darker than those in the northern parts), not just around the Mediterranean, but across the world. | In fact, it use to be more usual southern spanish with blondie hair and blue/green eyes (even more usual, dark hair and blue/green eyes - I find that specially prety). Someone told me long ago that this happens because a little bit after the Reconquest a lot of people from central Europe (coming by the hand con Charles V) were used to repopulate all this zones. It is true that Spain had a little population until the XIX - XX century and also many different kings made differente policies in order to repopulate the conquered zones, so that can be true.
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September 4th, 2010, 01:16 PM
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#36 | | Lecturer
Joined: Sep 2009 From: London, England Posts: 264 | Re: Conan the Barbarian vs Irish king Slaine Quote:
Originally Posted by Inanna In fact, it use to be more usual southern spanish with blondie hair and blue/green eyes (even more usual, dark hair and blue/green eyes - I find that specially prety). Someone told me long ago that this happens because a little bit after the Reconquest a lot of people from central Europe (coming by the hand con Charles V) were used to repopulate all this zones. It is true that Spain had a little population until the XIX - XX century and also many different kings made differente policies in order to repopulate the conquered zones, so that can be true. | I haven't heard of anything like that. Spain was already one of the most populous regions of Europe throughout the Middle Ages, so I don't see the point of any such repopulation from less-populated areas in Central Europe (Germany was the only country more populated in that region). The only repopulation I know of during the Reconquista was when Spaniards from the north of Spain (many of whom had Visigothic ancestry) would repopulate places in central and southern Spain whenever a large number of Moors or Jews were expelled from those areas.
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September 4th, 2010, 05:39 PM
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#37 | | Academician
Joined: Sep 2010 From: Madrid, Spain Posts: 68 | Re: Conan the Barbarian vs Irish king Slaine Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagger I haven't heard of anything like that. Spain was already one of the most populous regions of Europe throughout the Middle Ages, so I don't see the point of any such repopulation from less-populated areas in Central Europe (Germany was the only country more populated in that region). The only repopulation I know of during the Reconquista was when Spaniards from the north of Spain (many of whom had Visigothic ancestry) would repopulate places in central and southern Spain whenever a large number of Moors or Jews were expelled from those areas. | Actually, is not like that. In fact, Spain were one of the less populated countries (except after big catastrophes like the 30-years war in a couple of places of Germany). The moors and jews were expelled later, already in the late XV by the catolic kings, but the repopulations were made long ago by different kings. For example, in Andalucia the repopulation was extremly slow: It didn't start until 1264, by 200 knights and nobels. Anyway, the couldn't attract too much people, so huge areas of Andalucia was actually impopulated, and they took it for themselves: that's why in Andalucia there always been (still now) big areas of land owned by only one person (in the north is exactly the opposite).
As I said, the moors and jews did'nt be expelled from Spain until 1492 (and again, the descendents of the moors who conversed to cristianism were expelled in 1609 by Felipe III). That made the population to crash down, specially in the kingdom of Valencia: It losed 40% of their population.
Unfortunatly, I cannot provide you any bibliography in English, but if you want, I let you down the name of a couple of academics to see if you can find something of them in English:
Vicente Ángel Álvarez Palenzuela.
Jose Angel Garcia de Cortazar.
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Last edited by Inanna; September 4th, 2010 at 05:40 PM.
Reason: grammatical mistakes
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September 4th, 2010, 11:43 PM
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#38 | | Lecturer
Joined: Sep 2009 From: London, England Posts: 264 | Re: Conan the Barbarian vs Irish king Slaine
The historical population estimates of British economic historian Angus Maddison show that Spain actually had one of the largest populations in Europe throughout the Middle Ages, fourth only to France, Italy and Germany. Even the UK didn't overtake Spain's population until 1820. In other words, Spain had the fourth largest population in Europe from 1 AD up until 1820.
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September 5th, 2010, 03:06 AM
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#39 | | Academician
Joined: Sep 2010 From: Madrid, Spain Posts: 68 | Re: Conan the Barbarian vs Irish king Slaine Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagger The historical population estimates of British economic historian Angus Maddison show that Spain actually had one of the largest populations in Europe throughout the Middle Ages, fourth only to France, Italy and Germany. Even the UK didn't overtake Spain's population until 1820. In other words, Spain had the fourth largest population in Europe from 1 AD up until 1820. | counting the colonies? Other territory trhough Europe? Only the territory of Spain nowadays?
As far as I know, mr. Madison was economist, not historian; mr. Alvarez and mr. Garcia are both historians and specialized in spanish' middle ages. I tried to find some of their books in English but unfortunatly look like they have it only in Spanish. Anyway, with time, I can transalate a part for you.
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September 5th, 2010, 08:36 AM
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#40 | | Lecturer
Joined: Sep 2009 From: London, England Posts: 264 | Re: Conan the Barbarian vs Irish king Slaine Quote:
Originally Posted by Inanna counting the colonies? Other territory trhough Europe? Only the territory of Spain nowadays?
As far as I know, mr. Madison was economist, not historian; mr. Alvarez and mr. Garcia are both historians and specialized in spanish' middle ages. I tried to find some of their books in English but unfortunatly look like they have it only in Spanish. Anyway, with time, I can transalate a part for you. | The estimates only count the geographical region of Spain, not the Spanish colonial territories.
The late (recently deceased) Angus Maddison was indeed a historian, an economic historian to be specific, specializing in the study of historical population dynamics. I'm not suggesting he would know as much about Spanish history as specialists like Alvarez or Garcia, but since we are comparing historical populations across the whole of Europe and not just in Spain, it makes sense to use Maddison's estimates for such pan-European comparisons.
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