What if Hitler invaded Russians on a warm season? - Page 4 - Historum

Rolling Blockhead · April 19th, 2011, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larkin

The Ukrainians and Belarus welcomed the Germans but were subjected to cruel and inhuman treatment. This fueled the partisans from the outset. Had the Germans treated them as allies the Russians may have never gotten back and the CCCP might have ended in 1942 instead of 1989 regardless whether Germany won or lost the war.

This is an important point. Hitler took over portions of the USSR, and managed to convince them to FIGHT FOR STALIN! Amazing how Hitler could screw things up with his racial and ideological madness.

**larkin** · April 20th, 2011, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mingming

Can you provide some sources that say Barbarossa was planned for March? Because all the sources I've read point to May.

And I think March is a really bad time for a Russian invasion anyway. Its cold, wet, and as people have mentioned above muddy roads and useless rails. I don't think German generals would agree to a March invasion.

I was mistaken about March.. It was May. The invasion June 22 41 My original source was William Shire and Winston Churchill. Barbarossa was to begin spring(May 41) so that the weather would improve and warm as troops made advances deep into Russia. This was an intentional consideration to avoid the fate of Napoleon being trapped by the Russian winter as they were in 1812. Believe me the German Generals took note of this prominent military disaster.

By the time the Germans quelled the unanticipated Yugoslavian revolt, the delay was just enough to seal the German's fate. Barbarossa did not start until late June 1941.

Operation Barbarossa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

On 5 December, Hitler received military plans for the invasion, and approved them all, with the start scheduled for May 1941.[38] On 18 December 1940, Hitler signed War Directive No. 21 to the German High Command for an operation now codenamed "Operation Barbarossa" stating: "The German Wehrmacht must be prepared to crush Soviet Russia in a quick campaign."[38][39] The operation was named after Emperor Frederick Barbarossa of the Holy Roman Empire, a leader of the Third Crusade in the 12th century. The invasion was set for 15 May 1941.[39] In the Soviet Union, speaking to his generals in December, Stalin mentioned Hitler's references to an attack on the Soviet Union in Mein Kampf, and said they must always be ready to repulse a German attack, and that Hitler thought the Red Army would need four years to ready itself. Hence, "we must be ready much earlier" and "we will try to delay the war for another two years."[40]

Source for the material below. World War 2 History: Chronicle Of The Defeat Of Yugoslavia

Quote:

With such awesome forces amassed against her, it was only a matter of time before Yugoslavia, with an army of 28,000 men, succumbed. In fact, it took just 12 days for that to occur. On the 6th of April, units of Luftflotte IV began an unremitting air assault on Belgrade.
Simultaneously, the ground strike forces moved in. The XIV Motorized Corps began to advance from Bulgaria towards Belgrade. In 7 days they had advanced 312 miles along the Morava Valley. On April 13th, the XIV Motorized met up in Belgrade with the XLI Panzer Corps, which had advanced from the Timisoara region.
The Italians in the form of the 2nd Army had concentrated in Carinthia and southern Hungary. It engaged the Yugoslav Army at Barcs, on the border, captured a bridge over the Drava River and then opened up the way for a full scale rush into the heart of Yugoslavia. On April 15th, both Zagreb and Sarajevo were under enemy occupation. Meanwhile, the combined forces that had taken Belgrade moved to Krusevac to block the escape route of any Yugoslav remnants attempting to get from Bosnia to Macedonia.
The crushing of the Yugoslav Army was as much the result of their obsolete weaponry as it was the tactics of the enemy. Also, the Italians had for years attempted to undermine the morale of Croatians and now it was beginning to pay off. This can be seen by the following note from Colonel-General Halder of the German Winer-Neustadt division:
April 11, Good Friday . . . Information gathered during the course of the day gives the impression that in the north of Yugoslavia the front was breaking up with increasing rapidity. Units are laying down their arms or taking the road to captivity, according to our airmen. One cycle company captures a whole brigade with it's staff. An enemy divisional commander radios his superior officer that his men are throwing down their arms and going home.
On April 17, 1941, the Yugoslav Foreign Minister, Aleksander Cincar-Markovic along with General Jankovic, the deputy Chief of Staff, went to Belgrade to sign the instrument of surrender drawn up by the by the conquerors. At the moment of signing King Peter II was aboard a Sunderland flying boat on his way to Egypt.
As a result of the surrender 6,028 Yugoslav officers along with 337,684 non commissioned officers and men became prisoners of war. However, nearly 300,000 men of the conquered army evaded capture. These formed a resistance force and were organized under a Colonel Draza Mihailovic - a key player in the March 27th overthrow. Official German casualty figures for the war on Yugoslavia are as follows:

**mingming** · April 20th, 2011, 02:58 PM

That makes more sense then?

cincinnatus · April 20th, 2011, 05:03 PM

The original objective was for Army Group center to take Moscow. Hitler changed the objective to take Kiev. While that is widely criticized it was not totally unreasonable. It did allow for the capture of over 750,000 men who were a threat to the Germans flanks.

Pugsville does make some points about German thinking. In truth German military thinking was a necessity of its perceived weakness. Germany always felt surrounded by hostile countries. Of course Germany never seemed to think that some of its activities led to this hostility. So for Germany quick wars were what it needed the ability to mobilize quicker to get more men to the point of attack early would make all the difference.

So Germany never planned for long wars because a long war would mean defeat.

Pugsville is also correct in Germany's disregard for the capability of its enemies. Germany would underestimate its enemies in WWI especially the Americans . And in WWII the Russians.

German military thinking while brilliant in many areas. Was very insular and self absorbed so German Generals had little contact with other areas of life.