Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > Themes in History > Speculative History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Speculative History Speculative History Forum - Alternate History, What If Questions, Pseudo History, and anything outside the boundaries of mainstream historical research

LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old April 3rd, 2012, 04:02 PM   #121

KillCarneyKlansman's Avatar
Joined: Jul 2011
From: Arcadia
Posts: 326
Blog Entries: 53

Indo-European and non-Indo-European aspects to the languages and place-names in Britain and Ireland [By] George Broderick

Given that the Celtic derivations appear unsatisfactory Vennemann (1998: 464-465) offers the meaning ‘copper island’ for riu deriving from Paleosemitic Etyma from Hebrew ‘-y- ‘island’ and Akkadian werm, er, Assyrian often eriu(m) ‘copper, bronze’. From paleosemitic *’y-wr’(m) ‘copper island’ constructed and vocalised as *’iy+weri’um, *iyweri’im, it would be possible for such a construct to pass easily as a loanword into Greek, Latin and Celtic.

In support of his suggestion Vennemann (1998: 466) notes that copper was mined industrially in prehistoric times in Ireland mainly for export. Even today, he notes (quoting Brockhaus: Irland), that copper in Ireland today is an important economic factor. Place-names of this sort, i.e. describing a territory from its metal deposits or other economic attributes, are found even today A similar name also found in antiquity is Cassiterides, from Greek ?ass?te??de? ??s?? (Kassiterides nesoi) ‘the tin-islands’ from Gk. ?ass?t???? (Kassiteros) ‘tin’, referring to the Isles of Scilly, which were seemingly mined by the Phoenicians. (Strabo Geog. II, 5, 15):

[...] The western parts of Prettanike lie opposite these [headlands] to the north and likewise the islands called Cattiterides [Kassiterides] lie in the open sea opposite the Artabri, set approximately in the Brettanic latitude (Strabo Geog. II, 5, 15, after PNRB: 90) ... The Cattiterides [Kassiterides] are ten [islands] in number and they lie close to one another in the open sea to the north of the harbour of the Artabri. One of them is uninhabited, but the rest are occupied by people in black cloaks [...]. Having mines of tin and lead they exchange these and hides with merchants for pottery, salt and bronze vessels. Informer times only the Phoenicians carried on this trade, from Gades [Cadiz] [...] (Strabo Geog. III, 5, 11, after PNRB: 90). Strabo (Geog. III, 5, 11):

Another Greek name for Britain and adjacent islands was ??etta???? (Prettanike) (in Diodorus (Hist. 5, 38, 4) and Strabo (Geog. 2, 120; 3, 175); also with B-), alternatively pe?? t?? ??eta?????? ??s?? (peri ton Bretannikon neson ‘about the Bretannic Islands’, i.e. Britain and Ireland) in Polybius (Hist. 3, 57, 2-3), W. Prydain, earlier Prydein. (Rivet & Smith 1979: 82). The traditional derivation of the name is IE *qrt ‘cut (Lat. curtus, Gaelic cruth ‘form, shape’, W. pryd, with the Pr- of P-Celtic, with the meaning ‘figured people, tattooed people’. The name for the inhabitants of the British Isles, namely *Pritani, may likely have derived from the Gauls, which was passed on to the Greeks of Massilia, to those interested in the tin trade, etc, in pure form with ?-, then later to the Romans with B-. Other usages of note are Ptolemy’s references in the Almagest to ???a?? ??etta??a (Megale Brettania ‘Great Britain’) and ????a ??etta??a (Mikra Brettania ‘Little Britain’, i.e. Ireland) (cf. Rivet & Smith 1979: 282).

However, Vennemann (1998: 467) suggests, if the following information is correct: (‘The oldest piece of information regarding the name is to be found in a Demotic papyrus from the first century BC. Here the name for tin is pretan, which at that time was seemingly imported into Egypt from Cornwall’) (Der Kleine Pauly s.v. Britannia) ... (though there is no specific information given about the aforementioned papyrus) that this might indicate that the name ??etta??a (Prettania), W. Prydain, derives from pretan with the meaning ‘tin island’. If so, this would support the notion that riu, the name for Ireland, has the meaning ‘copper island’, both probably bestowed by non-Celtic dealers in metal, i.e. that the names for the main islands of Britain and Ireland, Vennemann believes, are of non-Indo-European, but possibly of Hamito-Semitic origin.

Irish pedigrees; or, The origin and stem of the Irish nation by John O'Hart

Accor^g to the Four Masters, the Celtic language was the Scythian ; which was, from Gaodhal, who " refined and adorned it," afterwards called OaodhUg or " Gaelic." There is reason to believe that the Scythian was the language of our First Parents. As the Celtic, Teutonic, and Slavonic nations were of Scythian origin, so was the Scythian language the parent stock of all the dialects* spoken by those nations. The Celtic or Gaelicf was the language of Ireland ; in which were written the ancient Irish records, annals, and chronicles.

Phoeniusa Farsaidh, son of Baoth, son of Magog, son of Japhet, was the inventor of LeUers; after him his descendants were called Photnidans. His name is sometimes rendered "Feniusa Farsa/* and his descendants were called -fetWand Phcen6. The ancient Irish were also called Fein4: a proof of identity of origin between the Phoenicians and the ancient Irish. { ..... * DiaUets : There are at present no less than 3,642 langoages and dialects spoken thronghont the world. }

According to Mariana and other Spanish historians, the *< BriRantes'' (a people so called after fireoghan, or Brigus, the grandfather of Milesius of Spain), were some of the Brigas or Phrygians of Asia Minor ; and were the same people as the ancient Trojans I Brigus sent a colony from Spain into Britain ; and many of the descendants of that Gaelic colony, who settled in England and in Ireland since the EngUsh Invasion, are erroneously considerer [with the] Anglo-Saxon [but lastly with the] Anglo-Norman descent. [but linked Inextricably with Norse, Dumnoni, Welsh, [Old Brit], Dal Raida, Argyll, and not to mention Friso, Saxo & Bruno]

Brigantia (now Corunna), a city in Galicia (where the Gaels settled),, in the north of Spain, was founded by that Breoghan or Brigus ; and from Brigantia the Brigantes came to Ireland with the Milesians. According to Ptolemy's Map of Ancient Ireland, the Brigantes inhabited the territories in Leinster and Manster, now forming the counties of Wexford, Waterford, Tipperary, Kilkenny, Cailow, and Queen's County ; and the native Irish of these territories, descended from the Brigantes, were, up to a recent period, remarkable for their tail or gigantic stature.

Homer,* the most ancient author in the heathen world, names the " proud Miletus" as among the Trojan forces mentioned in the " Catalogue," Book 11. of the Iliad:

** Of tboee who roond Mfeonia's realms reside.
Or whom the vales in shade of Tmolus hide,
Mestles and Antiphns the charee partake ;
Bom on the ban^ of Gtyges* silent lake.
There, from the fields where wild Mseander flows.
High Mycal^ and Latmos* shady brows,
Ana proud Miletuay ..... —Pope's ifdwi^r.

" If we look upon this Catalogue with an eye to ancient learning/' says Pope, " it may be observed that, however fabnlous the other part of Homer's poem may be accord-
ing to the nature of Epic poetry, this account of the people, princes, and countries is purely historical, founded on the real transactions of those times ; and bv far the most valuable piece of history and geography left us concerning the state of Greece in that early period. Ch-eece was then divided into several dynasties, which Homer has enumerated under their respective princes ; and his division was looked upon so exact, that we are told of many controversieB concerning the boundaries of Grecian cities, which have been decided upon the authority of this piece (the * Catalogue') : the city of Calydon was adjudged to the ^tolians notwithstanding the pretensions of iEk>lia, because Homer had ranked it among the towns belonging to the former. When the Miksiam and peojple of Priene disputed their claim to Mycal^, a verse of Homer (that above given) earned it in favour oi the Milesians."

Prydan Caithrn Cumhri
KillCarneyKlansman is offline  
Remove Ads
Old April 4th, 2012, 06:54 PM   #122

KillCarneyKlansman's Avatar
Joined: Jul 2011
From: Arcadia
Posts: 326
Blog Entries: 53

The Literary gazette: A weekly journal of literature, science, and the fine arts - George Augustus Frederick Fitzclarence (1st Earl of Munster) - Google Books

The Gallic Celts were more remarkable for their variable pronunciation and mutation of letters (great causes of obscurity iu etymological inquiries) than even the Welsh and Irish. [like a phonal sift from a (german) constant to (gallo-roman) vowel based] The Latin tarba, the heard, was with them 'barf, varef, barv, panv, warf: the Gascons were Vascons, Wassones, Bascons, and Biscayans. H, g, and c, when initial letters, were geneTally confounded among the Celts, by indistinct guttural sounds to produce energy; but k has frequently taken their place in modern days, since they became objectionable for their harshness. The intcrmiitations of p, q, c, h, iuid k, are very extraordinary. P, reversed, appears to have formed q, which probably was introduced into the alphabet at a later date. - - - Allowing for such singularities, the affinity of European language is observable in the 'jiii, qua:, quod, of the Latin, which takes cui in the datire case; the Irish ci, ce, ciod; the Greek Km;, mi, mm; the .'Eolian xoiof, xtfl), x.o; the Armoric and Welsh, pi, pa, piad, orpibcth; the Gothic hua, hy, huad; Saxon hwa, hwe, hwat; Danish hwo, hwilk, hwad; Belgic wic, wilk, wat. And in our ancient quho, quhich, quilk, quhat, together with the modern who, which, what, seem to be included both the Celtic and Gothic pronunciations.

The Celtic language, including the Hellenic Greek, and Latin or iolian dialects, is supposed to have been general throughout Europe, prior to the irruptions of those hordes named Pelasgi, nt\j-yi|, the neighbouring country, or Pelasgeotae, perhaps +uXrcyi|Tr, the Gothic tribe,who were called by the Asiatics the red-haired people; and its adinity to the Arabic, Hebrew, and Phoenician, like that of the Gothic to the Sanscrit and the ancient Persian, has been generally admitted. The first establishment of those invaders was said to have been Argos [Argii linked to Pelags], the white, or town of fair incn, and the name afterwards extended to the whole of Greece. That particular race may still be distinguished in Sweden, Saxouy, Hanover, and some smaller districts, such as Darmstadt, whose loftv stature and flaxen hair indicate a different descent from the cross made, swarthy inhabitants of Hesse Cassel, Bavaria, and Suabia; while an evident mixture is obscrvuble among the English,' Belgians, Danes, and Prussians. • [Blue]

On the other hand, the Goths denominated themselves Gaut or Gautr, Got, Jot or Jotun [Aesir, Vaner & Joktun], which they consider as a mere difference in pronunciation, meaning, like ricss or russ, powerful men, giants, or warriore. The formation of then- name may. be traced with some probability from the Gothic A, to have or possess, which produced, aud, out, Swedish od, Saxon ead, Teutonic od and ot; all of them signifying wealth, power, happiness, riches, beatitude; and hence were apparently derived our words God and good: the Latin bonus signified igood, ricfi; dives, divus, opulence anu divinity. The Greek n\/TOf, also, was wealth and Pluto, known to the Goths as Audin or Odin, the Persian Aydun, Hebrew Adoni, 1he Almighty, whom the Syrians called Mammon.

The chief who conducted the Goths into Scandinavia, appears by his Gothic names Odin, Wodan, and Godan, to have been confounded with the Deity, because his name, like the Persian Udu, the Gothic Aud, denoted power; as the arabic Akbar is applied to designate God or a mighty prince m the sense of our word Lord. The Bodb, Voda, or Vogd, of the Indians, Tartars, and Russians, the But, Bud, Wild, of the Persians and idolatrous Arabs, the Qud or Khnda of all the tribes from Turkey throughout Tartary, the Godami of the Malays and Ccyloncse, appear to he merely different pronunciations of Wodan, especially as bodh or hoodh in Sanscrit and the common dialects <.f Hindoostan is used for our Wednesday or Odin's dav. [pry-dan_tin-isles]

The Goths not merely in name, hut from speech, manners, country, and their own tradition, were the Gctae of ancient authors, better known to us with the article prefixed, as Sgetaj, Scacse, or Scythians. Scandinavia, the Skanisk or Scauiza of Jornandes, the Skagan of the Goths, signifying a shelving shore, is applied to the extremity cf Jutland at the entrance into the Baltic sea; and the modern Scania, the southernmost coast of Sweden, may have been Skagen Iduri, to which the Latin termination was annexed. There they distinguished themselves after their relative positions, as Normen, Suddermen, Austrgautr, Westrgautr, Danen, and Saxon, which in our 'language would be northmen, southmen, east-Goths, west-Goths, islanders, and sca-bordercrs. The Goths used [[Sun as well as Slid for the south]], and called the Swedes, Suens, or Socnski, the Latin Sueones.

The Gothic eyna, on, Danish oen, Islands, with the article de, our the, tvoufd be dr on, the islands, and denote the aquatic territory of the Danes, called Denmark in Saxon; the Gothic mark, inarz in Persian, being our march, a boundary. ton, the island, is Jona; and mi on, the middle island, Mona. [geo names being of the most ancient] The inhabitants of Germany were in speech Goths, particularly the Teutons, whose proper name was Thiuden, from the Gothic thiod or tibd, folk, subjects, people; and thus Suitliiodeu, the south nation or Sudcrmannia, was Sweden. The Tbiudans or Teutons seem therefore to have been colonists from the Goths in general; and Thio'dsk, now pronounced Tcudsh or Teutch throughout (Jermany, TmUschi in Italy, and by us Dutch, means strictly belonging to the nation). The Vandals apparently were not known till a later date. Their name originated in the Gothic vauda, from which we have our verbs to wcitd and to wander, converted by the Teutons into Vamlel; a name which designated some hordes of emigrants, compelled by over population to leave their native soil in quest of new possessions.

[More than likely linked to the Huns and the dispersion of Amorica as a haven, plus a few personalities like Riothamus, Vortigern, Ambrosius, Hengest and Horsa, Eruc, Vandals, etc ...]

Full text of "English Cornish dictionary"
Full text of "English Cornish dictionary"
SCYTHE, . Filh, voulz. Williams calls these corrupt forms.

Ireland History - Before there were Counties [Antrim]

The earliest inhabitants of this part of Ireland on record were a race of its ancient Celtic possessors, designated by Ptolemy Darnii or Darini; and it deserves notice that Nennius mentions the "regions of Dalrieda" as the ultimate settlement of the Scythian colony in Ireland. In the ancient division of the island the southern and south-western parts of this county were included in the territory called Dalaradiae, or Ulidia, the western and north-western were designated Dalrieda, and the name of the whole was Endrium or Andrium, signifying the "habitation of the waters," and strikingly descriptive of its situation. It was afterwards divided into the three districts ... A right of supremacy over the lords of this territory was claimed by the powerful family of the northern O'Nials (now written O'Neill [Venilli forms]), who were at length deprived of the southern part of this county, at the time of the arrival of the English, by the family of Savage and other English adventurers.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pytheas"]Pytheas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] 42. ^ Natural History IV.27.13 or IV.13.95 in the Loeb edition. 43. ^ [Natural History] XXXIV.5.

Pliny says that a large island of three days' sail from the Scythian coast called Balcia by Xenophon of Lampsacus is called Basilia by Pytheas [42]. It is generally understood to be the same as Abalus. Based on the amber, the island could have been Heligoland, Zealand, the shores of Bay of Gdansk, Sambia or the Curonian Lagoon, which were historically the richest sources of amber in northern Europe. This is the earliest use of Germania. Polybius relates:[43] "... on his return thence (from the north), he traversed the whole of the coast of Europe from Gades to the Tanais."

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irminones"]Irminones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] [Ymir-Bruno],

Pomponius Mela writes in his Description of the World (III.3.31) in reference to the Kattegat and the waters surrounding the Danish isles (see the Codanus sinus): "On the bay are the Cimbri and the Teutoni; farther on, the farthest people of Germania, the Hermiones." Mela then begins to speak of the Scythians. Pliny's Natural History (4.100) claims that the Irminones include the Suebi, Hermunduri, Chatti, and Cherusci. In Nennius the name Mannus (see Mannaz) and his three sons appear in corrupted form, the ancestor of the Irminones appearing as Armenon. His sons here are Gothus, Valagothus/Balagothus, Cibidus, Burgundus, and Longobardus, whence come the Goths (and Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Crimean Goths), Valagoths/Balagoths, Cibidi, Burgundians and Lombards/Langobards.They may have differentiated into the tribes Alamanni, Hermunduri, Marcomanni, Quadi, Suebi by the 1st century AD. At this time the Suebi, Marcomanni and Quadi had moved southwest into the area of modern day Bavaria and Swabia. In 8 BC, the Marcomanni and Quadi drove the Boii out of Bohemia ... Jormun, the Viking Age Norse form of the name Irmin can be found in a number of places in the Poetic Edda as a by name for Odin.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goths"]Goths - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] [Geats, Jutes, etc]

The first Greek references to the Goths call them Scythians, [examples needed] since this area along the Black Sea historically had been occupied by an unrelated people of that name. The term as applied to the Goths appears to be geographical rather than ethnological in reference.[34]

34. ^ Kulikowski (2007), p. 19. Quote: "And so the Goths, when they first appear in our written sources, are Scythians – they lived where the Scythians had once lived, they were the barbarian mirror image of the civilised Greek world as the Scythians had been, and so they were themselves Scythians."

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglii"]Angles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] - Angles under other names [sub heading]

Two important geographers, Strabo and Pliny, are silent concerning the Angles. Their reasons for this exclusion was their consideration of the south shore of the Baltic to be terra incognita, "unknown land." However, both Strabo and Pliny describe that shore. Since the Angles took a geographic name, they likely had other names not based on geography. Strabo (7.2.1, 4 and 7.3.1) states that the Cimbri still live on the peninsula (Jutland) where they always did, even though some of them liked to wander. Beyond the Elbe the coastal people are unknown in Strabo's work, but south of them are the Suebi from the Elbe to the Getae (Goths). Strabo worked eastward from the Rhine.

Pliny, on the other hand, worked from east to west (4.13.94). His description leaves the Black Sea, crosses the Ripaei mountains to the shore of the northern ocean, and follows it westward to Cadiz. In the first direction is Scythia, where the Sarmati, Venedi, Sciri, and Hirri are located, as far as the Vistula. Then the Inguaeones begin. Baunonia (Bornholm) is an island opposite Scythia. Cylipenus, probably the Bay of Kiel, is described, and from there a gulf called Lagnus, which is on the frontier of the Cimbri. Its location is not known, but it was likely in the Angeln region.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Age"]Iron Age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] [nw scythia proper steppes great estuary above Crimea, cimmer, Khema not medes/caucaus or dacian ArSareth, -> south troy]

Along with Chernogorovka and Novocherkassk cultures, on the territory of ancient Russia and Ukraine the Iron Age is to a significant extent associated with Scythians, who developed iron culture since the 7th century BC. The majority of remains of their iron producing and blacksmith's industries from 5th to 3rd century BC was found near Nikopol in Kamenskoe Gorodishche, which is believed to be the specialized metallurgic region of the ancient Scythia.[26][27]

26. ^ Great Soviet Encyclopedia, 3rd edition, entry on "Железный век", available online here
27. ^ Christian, D. A History of Russia, Central Asia and Mongolia, Blackwell Publishing, 1998, p. 141, available online

The Irish - Celtic, British and Saxon Chronicles [Scot. Scyth, Scoth, Succoth]

Early Irish chroniclers were emphatic in their claim that the Irish were descended from Scythian stock. This claim is confirmed in many points, not the least of which is the fact that "Scot" and "Scythian" share the same etymological root ... The early Irish were originally known as Scots, of course, and they were later to leave Ireland and invade and settle the country that still bears their name, displacing and subduing the native Picts in waves and waves of invasion that have tested the sanity of school children ever since! ... It is obvious from other points the early Irish looked back to the time when their ancestors had left the Aegean, or Eastern Mediterranean seaboard in search of a land in which they could settle; and it is equally obvious that in such a westward maritime migration, the Spanish Peninsula would be the most convenient stopping-off point during the first stage of migration.

"Scot (is) the same as Sythian in etymology; the root of both is Sct. The Greeks had no c, and would change "t" into "th" making the root "skth," and by adding a phonetic vowel, we get Skuth-ai (Scythians,) and Skoth-ai (Skoths.) The Welsh disliked "s" at the beginning of a word, and would change it to "ys;" they would also change "c" or "k" to "g," and "th" to "d;" whence the Welsh root would be "Ysgd," and Skuth or Skoth would become "ysgod." Once more, the Saxons would cut off the Welsh "y," and change the "g" back again to "c," and the "d" to "t," converting the Ysgod to Scot."

In this context it is important for us to take special note of the names of the two patriarches who were to lead the Milesian (or Scythian) invasion of Ireland, Eber and Eremon; for in his own account of the matter, the Portuguese historian, Emanuel de Faria y Sousa, tells us that Iberus and Himerus were said to have "sailed into Ireland, and given the name Hibernia to it." The early Irish historians further deduced their origins lay with the Phoenician colonists who had also previously settled that Spanish Peninsula, later to migrate to Ireland. In this context it is of additional interest to note that the ancient Greeks once held the Phoenician nation to have been founded by Phoenix, whose brother Cadmus had invented the alphabet. Likewise, the Irish also recalled the time when they lived under a king named "Phenius, who devoted himself especially to the study of languages, and composed an alphabet and the elements of grammar." [[It is agreed among scholars the system of alphabetic writing originated among the Phoenicians, and this is deduced from hard and independent archaeological evidence, not Irish myths.]] So it is clear at the very least, the early Irish chroniclers were passing on an account, albeit garbled in places, of authentic historical events, and of the equally historic descent of their own race from Phoenician and/or Scythian stock (see Table 1).

Neglected British History (1917) by Flinders Petrie
Proceedings of the British Academy, Volume VIII, pp 251-278. Paper presented to the Academy on November 7, 1917.
Neglected British History - Wikisource

1.1 Comparison of Caesar and Tysilio.
1.2 Notes on Tysilio, Nennius, and Gildas.
1.3 General Character of the Saxon Immigration.
1.4 Summary.

The general conclusions to which we are led are:

A British record of Caesar’s attack written in entire ignorance of Caesar’s account, but closely according with it.
The British account was the basis of the chronicle of the kingdom of Gloucester, and passed into history by Tysilio.
That the Brut legend was written about the time of Claudius.
There is nothing improbable in all the relations with Rome, down to the fifth century, as represented in Tysilio.
Statements of marvels by Geoffrey are carefully withdrawn by him from historic materials and treated as fabulous.
There is no doubt as to the dependence of Geoffrey on Walter
Of Walter on an earlier manuscript, probably Breton, for the British history, as stated by those writers.
The Hengest invasion is dated by Celtic sources to A.D. 428, and the Saxon date is in error.
Arthur reigned from 467-493, thus rendering possible the account of his French expedition. [?]
Continental immigration, and mixture with the native population, was continuous from long before the Roman age.
The historical triads were compiled before A.D. 450 down to the 12th century, but received no accretions since then.
[except arthur and french cauldii cycle post norman ?]
That the laws of Moelmud show the pagan British civilization, at least as early as the Roman age.

Last edited by KillCarneyKlansman; April 4th, 2012 at 07:06 PM.
KillCarneyKlansman is offline  
Old April 5th, 2012, 09:43 PM   #123

KillCarneyKlansman's Avatar
Joined: Jul 2011
From: Arcadia
Posts: 326
Blog Entries: 53

Roman Britain 360-536 Part I
KillCarneyKlansman is offline  
Old April 5th, 2012, 11:20 PM   #124

KillCarneyKlansman's Avatar
Joined: Jul 2011
From: Arcadia
Posts: 326
Blog Entries: 53

Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxon_Shore"]Saxon Shore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

The only contemporary reference we possess that mentions the name "Saxon Shore" comes in the late-4th century Notitia Dignitatum, which lists its commander, the Comes Litoris Saxonici per Britanniam ("Count of the Saxon Shore in Britain"), and gives the names of the sites under his command and their respective complement of military personnel.[1] However, due to the absence of further evidence, theories have varied between scholars as to the exact meaning of the name, and also the nature and purpose of the chain of forts it refers to.

Eutropius, who states that during the 280s the sea along the coasts of Belgica and Armorica was "infested with Franks and Saxons", and that it was for this reason that Carausius was first put in charge of the fleet there.[2] It also receives at least partial support from archaeological finds, as artefacts of a Germanic style have been found in burials, while there is evidence of the presence of Saxons in some numbers in the area of SE England and the northern coasts of Gaul around Boulogne-sur-Mer and Bayeux from the middle of the 5th century onwards.[3]

Stephen Johnson, holds that the forts fulfilled a coastal defence role against seaborne invaders, mostly Saxons and Franks,[4] and acting as bases for the naval units operating against them. This view is reinforced by the existence of a parallel chain of fortifications across the Channel on the northern coasts of Gaul, which complemented the British forts, suggesting a unified defensive system.[5]

John Cotterill however consider the threat posed by Germanic raiders, at least in the 3rd and early 4th centuries, to be exaggerated. The construction of the forts at Brancaster, Caister-on-Sea and Reculver in the early 3rd century and their location at the estuaries of navigable rivers is interpreted by them as an indication of a different role, that of fortified supply and transport points from and to Britain and Gaul, without any relation (at least at that time) to countering seaborne piracy.[6] This view is supported by contemporary references to the supplying of the army of Caesar Julian with grain from Britain during his campaign in Gaul in 359,[7] and their use as secure landing places by Count Theodosius during the suppression of the Great Conspiracy a few years later.[8]

Another theory, proposed by D.A. White, was that the extended system of the large stone forts was disproportionate to any threat by seaborne Germanic raiders, and that it was actually conceived and constructed during the secession of Carausius and Allectus (the Carausian Revolt) in 289-296, and with an entirely different enemy in mind: they were to guard against an attempt at reconquest by the Empire. This view, although widely disputed, has found recent support by archaeological evidence at Pevensey, which dates the fort's construction to the early 290s.[9]

It can be regarded as [a certainty] that in the latter decades of the 4th century the forts and their garrisons were employed in operations against Frankish and Saxon pirates. Britain was abandoned by Rome in 407, with Armorica following soon after. The forts on both sides continued to be inhabited in the following centuries, and in Britain in particular several continued in use well into the Anglo-Saxon period.

1. ^ a b Notitia Dignitatum, Pars Occ. XXVIII
2. ^ Eutropius, Breviarium, IX.21
3. ^ CBA Report 18: The Saxon Shore, pp. 63-67
4. ^ Aurelius Victor, De Caesaribus XXXIX.20-21
5. ^ Fields, pp. 39-42
6. ^ Fields, pp. 43-45
7. ^ Ammianus Marcellinus, Historia Romana, XVIII.2.3; Zosimus, Historia Nova, III.5.2
8. ^ Ammianus Marcellinus, Historia Romana, XXVII.8.6-7
9. ^ Fields, pp. 42-43

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_of_Roman_rule_in_Britain"]End of Roman rule in Britain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

The year 383 marks the end of Roman rule in northern and western Britain. In that year, Roman troops were withdrawn from those regions of Britain for the last time. As the connection between these regions and Rome was a military occupation rather than a civilian society, the connection was dissolved when the troops left ... In the late 4th and early 5th centuries, the Roman Empire could no longer defend itself against either internal rebellion or the external threat posed by expanding Germanic tribes in Northern and Eastern Europe. This situation and its consequences governed the separation of Britain from the rest of the Empire ... The Empire's historical relationship with Germanic tribes was sometimes hostile, at other times cooperative, but ultimately fatal, as it was unable to prevent those tribes from assuming a dominant role.

Gildas attributed an exodus of troops and senior administrators from Britain to Maximus, saying that he left not only with all of its troops, but also with all of its armed bands, governors, and the flower of its youth, never to return.[5] Raids by Saxons, Picts, and the Scoti of Ireland had been ongoing in the late 4th century, but these increased in the years surrounding 383. There were also large scale permanent Irish settlements made along the coasts of Wales under circumstances that remain unclear.[6][7][8][9]

Britain was suffering raids by the Scoti, Saxons, and Picts and, sometime between 396 and 398, Stilicho ordered a campaign against the Picts,[13] likely a naval campaign intended to end their seaborne raids on the east coast of Britain.[14] He may also have ordered campaigns against the Scoti and Saxons at the same time,[15] but either way this would be the last Roman campaign in Britain of which there is any record.[16]

Honorius sent letters to the cities in Britain urging them to fend for themselves. The description of the letters is famously known as the Rescript of Honorius, a characterisation that presumes that the letters were sent as a response (hence, a rescript) to a correspondence. Protocol dictated that Honorius address his correspondences to imperial officials, and the fact that he did not implies that the cities of Britain were now the highest Roman authority remaining on the island.[32] The fact that Gildas, independently of Zosimus, preserves the message (if not the exact words) of the Rescript, lends credibility to Zosimus' account.[33] In addition, Honorius had encouraged other provincials to provide for their own defense in similar situations, further supporting the assertion that he encouraged the Romano-Britons to do likewise.[34] At the time that the Rescript was sent Honorius was contained in his new capital of Ravenna by the Visigoths and was unable to prevent their Sack of Rome (410).[32]

E. A. Thompson ("Britain, A.D. 406–410", in Britannia, 8 (1977), pp. 303–318) offered a more provocative theory to explain the expulsion of officials and appeal for Roman aid. He suggested that a revolt consisting of dissident peasants, not unlike the Bagaudae of Gaul, also existing in Britain, and when they revolted and expelled the Roman officials, the landowning class then made an appeal for Roman aid.[45] There is the possibility that some form of bagaudae existed in Britain ... Koch's Celtic Culture (2005), which cites Thompson's translation of Zosimus ... goes on to say "The revolt in Britain may have involved bacaudae or peasant rebels as was the case in Armorica, but this is not certain."[47]

5. ^ Giles 1841:13, The Works of Gildas, The History, ch. 14
6. ^ Laing 1975:93, Early Celtic Britain and Ireland, Wales and the Isle of Man.
7. ^ Miller, Mollie (1977), "Date-Guessing and Dyfed", Studia Celtica, 12, Cardiff: University of Wales, pp. 33–61
8. ^ Coplestone-Crow, Bruce (1981), "The Dual Nature of Irish Colonization of Dyfed in the Dark Ages", Studia Celtica, 16, Cardiff: University of Wales, pp. 1–24
9. ^ Meyer, Kuno, "Early Relations Between Gael and Brython", in Evans, E. Vincent, Transactions of the Honourable Society of Cymmrodorion, Session 1895–1896, I, London: Honourable Society of Cymmrodorion, 1896, pp. 55–86

13. ^ Snyder 2003:62, The Britons. The date is given as 398. Stilicho himself was suppressing revolts in Africa at the time.
14. ^ Frere 1987:355, Britannia, "The End of Roman Britain".
15. ^ a b Jones 1990:307, An Atlas of Roman Britain.
16. ^ Mattingly 2006:238, An Imperial Possession.

32. ^ a b Snyder 1998:21, Age of Tyrants.
33. ^ a b Snyder 1998:18, Age of Tyrants. Gildas (De Excidio, 18.1) is quoted as saying "The Romans therefore informed our country that they could not go on being bothered with such troublesome expeditions. ... Rather, the British should stand alone, get used to arms, fight bravely, and defend with all their powers their land."
34. ^ Higham:73, Rome, Britain and the Anglo-Saxons, "Britain Without Rome". Higham cites "(Cod. Theod. VII.xiii. 16–17)" and notes that Honorius' relatives in Spain had attempted to do precisely that in their struggle against Constantine III.

45. ^ Snyder 1998:22, Age of Tyrants.
47. ^ Koch, John T., ed. (2005), "Civitas", Celtic Culture: A Historical Encyclopedia, ABL-CLIO (published 2006), pp. 450–451, ISBN 9781851094400

Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.

Roman Britain 360-536 Part II will be a Timeline

Last edited by KillCarneyKlansman; April 5th, 2012 at 11:27 PM.
KillCarneyKlansman is offline  
Old April 7th, 2012, 04:28 AM   #125

KillCarneyKlansman's Avatar
Joined: Jul 2011
From: Arcadia
Posts: 326
Blog Entries: 53

Here's a small preview of the PII timeline

402: [+] Britain copper coins are very rare, minted silver and gold coins indicate use
407: British Roman [coinage is no longer] going into circulation.
410: [-430] [Roman Briton] mass production [of Pottery] ended a decade or two earlier
410: Honorius refuses help for Britain, tells them to look to their own defence
430: [-520] date range for the Battle of Badon. See effects battles strategic outcomes
430: Its likely that coinage in Roman Briton as a medium of exchange was abandoned


1993-2003 ENCARTA Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Ephthalites, also called White Huns, nomadic people who invaded India from Central Asia during the 5th century ad. The Ephthalites had lighter skin than other Huns and spoke one of the Indo-European languages.

Chinese records indicate the Ephthalites first settled in Dzungaria, now in the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region of China. Early in the 5th century, they moved south and west, where they came into contact with the Gupta Empire of northern India and the Sassanian Empire of Persia. The Ephthalites launched a series of invasions into India. By the 6th century an Ephthalite ruled northwestern and central India. The Ephthalites’ empire in India was short-lived, lasting only three decades. The remaining parts of the Ephthalite kingdom in Bactria and Sogdia were destroyed about 565 by Persian and Turk invaders. The Ephthalite people were gradually absorbed into the general population of northwestern India.

Near the end of the 5th century a new enemy, the barbaric Ephthalites, or “White Huns,” attacked Persia; they defeated the Persian king Firuz II in 483 and for some years thereafter exacted heavy tribute. In the same year Nestorianism was made the official faith of the Persian Christians. Kavadh I favored the communistic teachings of Mazdak (flourished 5th century), a Zoroastrian high priest, and in 498 was deposed by his orthodox brother Zamasp. With the aid of the Ephthalites, Kavadh was restored to the throne in 501. He fought two inconclusive wars against Rome, and in 523 he withdrew his support of Mazdak and caused a great massacre of Mazdak's followers. His son and successor, Khosrau I, in two wars with the Byzantine emperor Justinian I, extended his sway to the Black Sea and the Caucasus, becoming the most powerful of all Sassanid kings. He reformed the administration of the empire and restored Zoroastrianism as the state religion

About the 1st century ad the Kushans, a central Asian people, won control of Aryana. Buddhism was the dominant religion from the 3rd century to the 8th century ad. Ruins of many monasteries and stupas, or reliquary mounds (structures where sacred relics are kept or displayed), from that period still remain. They line what was once a great Buddhist pilgrimage road from India to Balkh, in northern Afghanistan, and on into Central Asia.

Kushan power was destroyed at the end of the 4th century ad by a Turkic people of central Asian origin called the White Huns or Ephthalites. After the Ephthalites, the area was divided among several kingdoms, some Buddhist, some Hindu.

In the middle of the 1st century ad the Kushānas, one of the tribes of the Yue-chi of Central Asia (who had moved west from Mongolia after their failure against the Han dynasty in China), settled in Gandhara after forcing the nomadic Shakas (Scythians) to retreat from the region. Their king, Kadphises, established the Kushāna dynasty, which maintained contacts with the Roman Empire. It was during the Kushāna period—especially under the reign of King Kanishka—that a style of Buddhist art known as Gandharan developed in the region. Blending Hellenistic and Indian influences, the style depicted Buddha in human form for the first time, often with features resembling the Greek god Apollo and a Persian solar disk, or halo.

Gandhara became renowned as a center for Buddhism under the patronage of Kanishka, and for centuries after his reign it drew both Indian and Chinese pilgrims. In the ad 200s, the Gandharan capital of Taxila was invaded by the Persian Sassanid dynasty. It survived that invasion but was seriously damaged by the onslaught of the Ephthalites, or White Huns, in the late ad 400s.
KillCarneyKlansman is offline  
Old May 11th, 2012, 09:43 PM   #126

KillCarneyKlansman's Avatar
Joined: Jul 2011
From: Arcadia
Posts: 326
Blog Entries: 53


First Published 1918 by Humphrey Milford, Oxford University Press.
Assistant Keeper of Egyptian and Assyrian Antiquities in the British Museum, Professor in the University of London, King's College

It is true that under the Great King the various petty states and provinces were encouraged to manage their own affairs so long as they paid the required tribute, but their horizon naturally expanded with increase of commerce and the necessity for service in the king's armies. At this time Aramaic was the speech of Syria, and the population, especially in the cities, was still largely Aramaean.

As early as the thirteenth century sections of this interesting Semitic race had begun to press into Northern Syria from the middle Euphrates, and they absorbed not only the old Canaanite population but also the Hittite immigrants from Cappadocia. The latter indeed may for a time have furnished rulers to the vigorous North Syrian principalities which resulted from this racial combination, but the Aramaean element, thanks to continual reinforcement, was numerically dominant, and their art may legitimately be regarded as in great measure a Semitic product.

Hittite-Aramaean and Phoenician monuments, as yet undocumented with literary records, exhibit a strange but not unpleasing mixture of foreign /motifs/, such as we see on the stele from Amrith [1] in the inland district of Arvad. But perhaps the most remarkable example of Syrian art we possess is the king's gate recently discovered at Carchemish.[2] The presence of the hieroglyphic inscriptions points to the survival of Hittite tradition, but the figures represented in the reliefs are of Aramaean, not Hittite, type.

[1] /Collection de Clercq/, t. II, pl. xxxvi. The stele is sculptured in relief with the figure of a North Syrian god. Here the winged disk is Egyptian, as well as the god's helmet with uraeus, and his loin-cloth; his attitude and his supporting lion are Hittite; and the lozenge-mountains, on which the lion stands, and the technique of the carving are Assyrian. But in spite of its composite character the design is quite successful and not in the least incongruous.

[2] Hogarth, /Carchemish/, Pt. I (1914), pl. B. 7 f.

The fact that Babylonian should then have been adopted as the medium of official intercourse in Syria points to the closeness of the commercial ties which had already united the Euphrates Valley with the west. Egyptian control had passed from Canaan at the time of the Hebrew settlement, which was indeed a comparatively late episode in the early history of Syria. Whether or not we identify the Khabiri with the Hebrews, the character of the latter's incursion is strikingly illustrated by some of the Tell el-Amarna letters. We see a nomad folk pressing in upon settled peoples and gaining a foothold here and there.[2]

[2] See especially Professor Burney's forthcoming commentary on Judges (passim), and his forthcoming Schweich Lectures (now delivered, in 1917).

The great change from desert life consists in the adoption of agriculture, and when once that was made by the Hebrews any further advance in economic development was dictated by their new surroundings. The same process had been going on, as we have seen, in Syria since the dawn of history, the Semitic nomad passing gradually through the stages of agricultural and village life into that of the city. The country favoured the retention of tribal exclusiveness, but ultimate survival could only be purchased at the cost of some amalgamation with their new neighbours. Below the surface of Hebrew history these two tendencies may be traced in varying action and reaction. Some sections of the race engaged readily in the social and commercial life of Canaanite civilization with its rich inheritance from the past. Others, especially in the highlands of Judah and the south, at first succeeded in keeping themselves remote from foreign influence.

Semitic colonists on the Egyptian border were ever ready to adopt Egyptian symbolism in delineating the native gods to whom they owed allegiance, and a particularly striking example of this may be seen on a stele of the Persian period preserved in the Cairo Museum.[1] It was found at Tell Defenneh, on the right bank of the Pelusiac branch of the Nile, close to the old Egyptian highway into Syria, a site which may be identified with that of the biblical Tahpanhes and the Daphnae of the Greeks. Here it was that the Jewish fugitives, fleeing with Jeremiah after the fall of Jerusalem, founded a Jewish colony beside a flourishing Phoenician and Aramaean settlement. One of the local gods of Tahpanhes is represented on the Cairo monument, an Egyptian stele in the form of a naos with the winged solar disk upon its frieze. He stands on the back of a lion and is clothed in Asiatic costume with the high Syrian tiara crowning his abundant hair. The Syrian workmanship is obvious, and the Syrian character of the cult may be recognized in such details as the small brazen fire-altar before the god, and the sacred pillar which is being anointed by the officiating priest. But the god holds in his left hand a purely Egyptian sceptre and in his right an emblem as purely Babylonian, the weapon of Marduk and Gilgamesh which was also wielded by early Sumerian kings.

[1] Mller, op. cit., p. 30 f., pl. 40. Numismatic evidence exhibits a similar readiness on the part of local Syrian cults to adopt the veneer of Hellenistic civilization while retaining in great measure their own individuality; see Hill, "Some Palestinian Cults in the Graeco-Roman Age", in /Proceedings of the British Academy/, Vol. V (1912).

The Elephantine papyri have shown that the early Jews of the Diaspora, though untrammeled by the orthodoxy of Jerusalem, maintained the purity of their local cult in the face of considerable difficulties. Hence the gravestones of their Aramaean contemporaries, which have been found in Egypt, can only be cited to illustrate the temptations to which they were exposed.[1] Such was the memorial erected by Abseli to the memory of his parents, Abb and Ahatb, in the fourth year of Xerxes, 481 B.C.[2] They had evidently adopted the religion of Osiris, and were buried at Saqqrah in accordance with the Egyptian rites. The upper scene engraved upon the stele represents Abb and his wife in the presence of Osiris, who is attended by Isis and Nephthys; and in the lower panel is the funeral scene, in which all the mourners with one exception are Asiatics. Certain details of the rites that are represented, and mistakes in the hieroglyphic version of the text, prove that the work is Aramaean throughout.[3]

[1] It may be admitted that the Greek platonized cult of Isis and Osiris had its origin in the fusion of Greeks and Egyptians which took place in Ptolemaic times (cf. Scott-Moncrieff, /Paganism and Christianity in Egypt/, p. 33 f.). But we may assume that already in the Persian period the Osiris cult had begun to acquire a tinge of mysticism, which, though it did not affect the mechanical reproduction of the native texts, appealed to the Oriental mind as well as to certain elements in Greek religion. Persian influence probably prepared the way for the Platonic exegesis of the Osiris and Isis legends which we find in Plutarch; and the latter may have been in great measure a development, and not, as is often assumed, a complete misunderstanding of the later Egyptian cult.

[2] /C.I.S./, II. i, tab. XI, No. 122.

[3] A very similar monument is the Carpentras Stele (/C.I.S./, II., i, tab. XIII, No. 141), commemorating Taba, daughter of Tahapi, an Aramaean lady who was also a convert to Osiris. It is rather later than that of Abb and his wife, since the Aramaic characters are transitional from the archaic to the square alphabet; see Driver, /Notes on the Hebrew Text of the Books of Samuel/, pp. xviii ff., and Cooke, /North Semitic Inscriptions/, p. 205 f. The Vatican Stele (op. cit. tab. XIV. No. 142), which dates from the fourth century, represents inferior work.

The Ancient East By D. G. Hogarth

A great descent of Hatti raiders from the north about 1800 B.C. seems to have ended the imperial dominion of the First Dynasty. On their retirement Babylonia, falling into weak native hands, was a prey to a succession of inroads from the Kassite mountains beyond Elam, from Elam itself, from the growing Semitic power of Asshur, Babylon's former vassal, from the Hittite Empire founded in Cappadocia about 1500 B.C., from the fresh wave of Arabian overflow which is distinguished as the Aramaean, and from yet another following it, which is usually called Chaldaean; The Babylonian element in the Hittite art of distant Asia Minor, which shows from the very first (so far as we know it, i.e. from at least 1500 B.C.) that native artists were hardly able to realize any native ideas without help from Semitic models ... Governors of Syrian cities should have written their official communications to Pharaohs of the Eighteenth Dynasty in Babylonian cuneiform (as the archives found at Amarna in Upper Egypt twenty years ago show us they did) had already afforded such conclusive proof of early and long maintained Babylonian influence, that the more recent discovery that Hittite lords of Cappadocia used the same script and language for diplomatic purposes has hardly surprised us.

The list of these newcomers has long interested historians; for outlandish as their names were to Egyptians, they seem to our eyes not unfamiliar, and are possibly travesties of some which are writ large on pages of later history. Such are the Pulesti or Philistines, and a group hailing apparently from Asia Minor and the Isles, Tjakaray, Shakalsha, Danaau and Washasha, successors of Pisidian and other Anatolian allies of the Hittites in the time of Rameses II, and of the Lycian, Achaean and Sardinian pirates whom Egypt used sometimes to beat from her borders, sometimes to enlist in her service. Some of these peoples, from whatever quarters they had come, settled presently into new homes as the tide receded. The Pulesti, if they were indeed the historic Philistines, stranded and stayed on the confines of Egypt, retaining certain memories of an earlier state, which had been theirs in some Minoan land. Since the Tjakaray and the Washasha seem to have sprung from lands now reckoned in Europe, we may count this occasion the first in history on which the west broke in force into the

The empire which pressed back the Egyptians is the last but one which we have to consider before 1000 B.C. It has long been known that the Hittites, variously called Kheta by Egyptians and Heth or Hatti by Semites and by themselves, developed into a power in westernmost Asia at least as early as the fifteenth century; but it was not until their cuneiform archives were discovered in 1907 at Boghazkeui in northern Cappadocia that the imperial nature of their power, the centre from which it was exerted, and the succession of the rulers who wielded it became clear ... For many years past buyers of antiquities have been receiving, from Tarsus and its port, engraved stones and seals of singularly fine workmanship, which belong to Hittite art but seem of later date than most of its products. They display in their decoration certain peculiar designs, which have been remarked also in Cyprus, and present some peculiarities of form, which occur also in the earliest Ionian art. Till other evidence comes to hand these little objects must be our witnesses to the existence of a highly developed sub−Hittite culture in Cilicia which, as early as the ninth century, had already been refined by the influence of the Greek settlements. We find the nearest affinities to archaic Cypriote art (where this was indebted to Asiatic art at all) in Cilician and in Hittite Syrian art. Early Ionian and Carian strata contain very little that is of Egyptian character, but much whose inspiration can be traced ultimately to Mesopotamia


Despite the well-known importance of scholars in the earlier Neo-Assyrian period and the abundance of materials relating to their activities [scribes], why does one find the most explicit and systematic connection between the ummn and apkall in the Seleucid period? [4]

[4] focus here is ... why the clearest expression of the genealogical relationship is attested so late in Mesopotamian history.

Since the discovery of “Uruk List of Kings and Sages” (ULKS) discovered in Anu’s Bt Rs temple in 1959/60, Assyriologists have cited this Seleucid-era text as the clearest cuneiform evidence that Mesopotamian scholars (ummn) traced their professional ancestryexplicitly back to the mythological sages (apkall) of antediluvian fame and thereby implicitly to a relationship with the god Ea.

Marduk is called the nun.me dingir.mes (apkal il, “sage of the gods”) and the nun (rub, “prince”). These epithets are even adjacent to one another in the line. It is clear therefore that the text knew the distinction and the potential ambiguity between the words apkallu and rub. Moreover, rubsu provides a suitable parallel for the terms (ummnu) [prince] and (dayyn, “judges”)[Dan].

a-na nun.mes-s(rubsu) nu(l) me(iql) ud.mes-s lgud.da.meS
(If) he does not listen to his princes, his days will be short.

a-na um-ma-a-nu nu me kur-su bal-su
(If) he does not listen to (his) scholar, his land will rebel against him.

If Hurowitz is correct in seeing a relationship between the “Advice to a Prince” and Ea, then this text would be a significant and appropriate textual location to assert a connection between the apkall and their descendants, the ummn. The list of apkall in an incantation belonging to the apotropaic series [of] Bt mseri is sometimes cited as evidence for the connection between sages and scholars before the Seleucid era.

During the reign of Esarhaddon, the king, Aba-Enlil-dari was scholar, whom the Arameans call Ahiqar.. . . Nikarchos.

The Trojan War - Ancient Mysteries & Alternative History - Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums - Page 21
There maybe a connection here between troubled Nike(sos), Nikmed, Niqmed, winged victory, Cadmus, Didymus

More Astonishing Bible Proof - (Warning -Athiests- This Is Adult Sensitive Material)? - Christian Debate Forum - Christianity Board Christian Forum - Page 5

The library of Ras-Shamra-Ugarit and its connection with Egypt at the end of the 18th Dynasty was firmly established. Some large tablets are lexicons, bilingual and even trilingual. On some of the tablets there is a "copyright" mark: it is a statement that these tablets were made at the order of Nikmed, king of Ugarit. The similarity between the name Nikomedes, which was regarded as an Ionian name, and the name of the King of Ugarit, Nikmed, was to them so obvious that, after deciphering the name of the king, two scholars (Hrozny and Dhorme), working independently, related it to the Greek name.

rabu/prince dayyn/judge [Adapa/Adana/Denyen?] [aspiru?apkallu] [Ahiqar/Ahiram/Nike/Nikamos/Didymus?]
I haven't totally researched this ... but the parallels seem to fit to ... other earlier related threads of mine.

Achaemenid Persians were Achaeans? - Ancient Mysteries & Alternative History - Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums - Page 3

Other Notes on Mythologies

History Of Ancient Civilization By Charles Seignobos
=The Bull Apis.=−−Of these animal gods the most venerated was the bull Apis. It represented at once Osiris and Phtah and lived at Memphis in a chapel served by the priests. After its death it became an Osiris (Osar−hapi), it was embalmed, and its mummy deposited in a vault. The sepulchres of the "Osar−hapi" constituted a gigantic monument, the Serapeum [Serapis], discovered in 1851 by Marietta.

1993-2003 ENCARTA Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
Anu (Mesopotamian mythology), one of the senior deities of ancient Mesopotamia was revered as lord of the heavens and father of the gods. In the Akkadian creation epic, the union of Apsu (the sweet-water ocean) and Tiamat (the salt-water ocean) produced a succession of deities culminating in the great gods Anu and Ea. In Hittite mythology, Anu deposed Alalu, the first king in heaven. The god Kumarbi (who may be equated with the Sumerian Enlil) then waged war on Anu. Kumarbi gave birth to the weather god Teshub, who eventually triumphed over Kumarbi.

For her temenos [temple-land] they wrought an image of the goddess, a xoanon [idol] , from a vine-stump. There "they called upon the mother of Dindymon, mistress of all, the dweller in Phrygia, and with her Titias and Kyllenos who alone of the many Cretan Daktyls of Ida are called 'guiders of destiny' and 'those who sit beside the Idaean Mother'."

Dana, also known as Anu, Danu, [Diana] or Danaan, a major mother goddess in Celtic mythology. Dana is attributed three sons: the gods Brian, Iuchar, and Iucharba. Sources indicate a possibility that Dana and Brigit were the same goddess and mother. The descendants of Dana and her consort Bil (Beli) were known as the Tuatha D Danaan (Celtic for “Children of Danaan”), a race of gods that in later legend became one of the early peoples of Ireland.

I coulda added more but this is way beyond a readable length already
KillCarneyKlansman is offline  
Old May 11th, 2012, 11:32 PM   #127

KillCarneyKlansman's Avatar
Joined: Jul 2011
From: Arcadia
Posts: 326
Blog Entries: 53

Let me add this Sheik, Ras Shamra, Fenix Farsa


With the Kheta compare the Chatti referred to by Tacitus, and the ---- of Strabo. What is the origin of the name Hit on the Euphrates? [The Chatti, or Catti, are said to have taken their name from "the old German word cat or cad, 'war' ": see Smith's Class. Dic. The Kheta seem to owe their name to the word Kheth, an inclosure (fenced or fortified), comp. the Egyptian Khetam; and Khatem, which is the ring for the finger, in Heb. ----. The well-known site, Sarbut el Khadem, in the Sinatic peninsula, owes its name (says Dr. Ebers) to the old Egyptian fortress (Khetam):
[prince] is usually derived from [05387, 05375] taken to mean 'one who is exalted' or 'one who exalts himself (above others)' ... The term basically denotes a tribal head, a sheik, one who exercises authority over a tribe, a clan, or even land.

[In the Amphictyonic League] each of the tribes was represented by a sheik in a college of tribal heads ... one of the duties of the college was the management of the communal sanctuary; supposedly the members of the college acted on behalf of the tribes.

In Ugarit around 1300 BC, Dagon had a large temple and was listed third in the pantheon following a father-god and El, and preceding Bail ?apan (that is the god Haddu or Hadad/Adad). Joseph Fontenrose first demonstrated that, whatever their deep origins, at Ugarit Dagon was identified with El,[1] explaining why Dagan, who had an important temple at Ugarit is so neglected in the Ras Shamra mythological texts, where Dagon is mentioned solely in passing as the father of the god Hadad, but Anat, El's daughter, is Baal's sister, and why no temple of El has appeared at Ugarit.

Ugarit-Ras Shamra and Conventional vs Revised Chronology-518
More Astonishing Bible Proof - (Warning -Athiests- This Is Adult Sensitive Material)? - Christian Debate Forum - Christianity Board Christian Forum - Page 5

Ugarit a maritime commercial city; its population was composed of various ethnic groups. One document found there describes the expulsion of King Nikmed and all the foreign groups in the city. Among them were people of Alasia (Cyprus), Khar (explained to be Hurrites), and Jm'an. The last name was identified by the decipherers as `Jamanu', which is well known from the Assyrian inscriptions, and means `Ionians'. The interpretation of `Jm'an' as `Ionians' was disputed for no other reason than that in the 14th century a reference to Ionians would have been impossible. In the same inscription, at a point were the names of the expelled are repeated, the name `Didyme' [is substitued for it several times]. The decipherers took it to be the name of the city of Didyma in Ionia. This city is well known for its cult of Apollo Didymeus.

There is some tantilizing clues here.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugarit"]Ugarit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
The Baal cycle represents Baal's destruction of Yam (the chaos sea monster), demonstrating the relationship of Canaanite chaoskampf with those of Mesopotamia and the Aegean: a warrior god rises up as the hero of the new pantheon to defeat chaos and bring order.

Aruna is a sea god in Hittite mythology ... Aruna is also the Hittite word for "sea ... It could also be a reconstruction of the Indo-European mori or Greek words for Black Sea, μόρυχος. A Hattic origin through the place name Arianna has also been suggested.

Ugarit (Ras Shamra) - Syria (Homs Online)

Many texts discovered at Ugarit, including the "Legend of Keret," the "Aghat Epic" (or "Legend of Danel"), the "Myth of Baal-Aliyan," and the "Death of Baal," reveal an Old Canaanite mythology. A tablet names the Ugaritic pantheon with Babylonian equivalents; El, Asherah of the Sea, and Baal were the main deities. These texts not only constitute a literature of high standing and great originality but also have an important bearing on Old Testament studies. It is now evident that the patriarchal stories in the Old Testament were not merely transmitted orally but were based on written documents of Canaanite origin, the discovery of which at Ugarit has led to a new appraisal of the Old Testament.

More Astonishing Bible Proof - (Warning -Athiests- This Is Adult Sensitive Material)? - Christian Debate Forum - Christianity Board Christian Forum - Page 6
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perseus"]Perseus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Perseus was the son of Zeus and Dana, who by her very name, was the archetype of all the Danaans. Perseus’s native city was Greek and so were the names of his wife and relatives. There is some prospect that it descended into Greek from the Proto-Indo-European language. In that regard Robert Graves has espoused the only Greek derivation available. Perseus might be from the ancient Greek verb, (perthein), “to waste, ravage, sack, destroy”, some form of which appears in Homeric epithets. [Fits the pattern, how about Perse, Farsa, or even Artos?]

Perseus and Andromeda had seven sons: Perses, Alcaeus, Heleus, Mestor, Sthenelus, Electryon, and Cynurus, and two daughters, Gorgophone, and Autochthoe. Perses was left in Aethiopia and became an ancestor of the emperors of Persia. [check] The other descendants ruled Mycenae from Electryon down to Eurystheus, after whom Atreus [Artos?] got the kingdom. However, the Perseids included the great hero, Heracles, stepson of Amphitryon, son of Alcaeus. [A repeat of the sabazious-danubis thing]

More Astonishing Bible Proof - (Warning -Athiests- This Is Adult Sensitive Material)? - Christian Debate Forum - Christianity Board Christian Forum - Page 8

Bela the son of Beor ruled Edom, followed by Jobab a son of Zerah (Ge 36:32,33). The similarity of `Bela' to `Beli' (Beldeg, Baldr), who we proposed was a son of Odin (Valdr, Ward Green) is noteworthy, to say the least. The name of Zerah has been considered at length in the lineage of the Trojan Kings ... Belus is ``identified with Zeus'' in Perseus Encyclopedia.

(Valdr, Ward Green; Compendium of World History, Vol 2, Ch 12A, Herman L. Hoeh; Contra Apionem, 1.103, 1.227, Flavius Josephus; Harper's Dictionary of Classical Antiquities, 1898, Harry Thurston Peck; Perseus Encyclopedia)

The Ten Lost Tribes Theory - Apologetic Christian Forum - Christianity Board Christian Forum - Page 2
Iarbanel is clearly stated to be a descendant (“son of”) Nemedh, the Hebrew chieftain. This obviously makes Larbanel also a Hebrew. Furthermore, Iarbanel is also unique in that he is called a prophet, the only one of Nemedh’s descendants so called.

Nor is Larbanel the only name by which he is known in Irish history. He is also found in the Milesian story as well. Again, Keating, in his account of founders of a sort of school established by Fenius Farsa in Egypt after the Tower of Tahpanhes was abandoned. He writes, “The three sages that held the chief direction of this great school were Fenius Farsa from Scythia; Gaedal, son of Ethor, of the race of Gomer, from Greece; and Caei, the Eloquent (or the Just), from Judea, or Iar (Iarbanel], son of Nemha [Nemedh], as others call him ...“.

More Astonishing Bible Proof - (Warning -Athiests- This Is Adult Sensitive Material)? - Christian Debate Forum - Christianity Board Christian Forum - Page 8
Ireland-Israelite Nation

[In] the Leabhar Gabhala (Book of Conquests) agrees, adding that Iarbanel the Prophet was a Nemedian chief. (Though Iarbanel is called a “son” of Nemedh, this need not literally be true. It simply means he is a descendant of Nemedh.) The account reads: “Now as for Neimedh [Nemedh], he had four chiefs with him, Stain, Iarbanel the Prophet, Fergus Redside, and Ainnian. They were four sons of Neimedh”.(l 3)
Still another account names Nemedh the ancestor of the Danaans. Keating writes, “Some antiquarians say, that the nation, of whom we are now treating, were called Tuatha-De-Danaan.

All this need not be as confusing as it looks, as there is a common thread running through all these genealogies. Whether we speak of Nemedians, Fir-Bolgs (a branch of the Nemedians), Danaans, or Milesians, all these peoples were Hebrews. As the Nemedians preceded the other peoples, it is clear that the Irish historians have attempted to trace the lineage of their kings to this island’s earliest Hebrew ancestors.
KillCarneyKlansman is offline  
Old May 29th, 2012, 11:55 AM   #128

KillCarneyKlansman's Avatar
Joined: Jul 2011
From: Arcadia
Posts: 326
Blog Entries: 53

My Arthritis has been bugging me ... and this was for another post a couple of weeks back ... so I'll put it here ... It relates sorta to this thread and the Aryan land one


The first true Shivaite images are found at Catal Hoyuk in Anatolia, dating from about 6000 B.C. The cults of Osiris, the bull and the ram, appear just after the dawn of Egyptian civilization. In Egypt, the cults of bull-Osiris and ram-Osiris are found in a fused form, although originally separate, as in the case of the fusion of the cults of bull-Shiva and ram-Skanda. There also exists a colossal statue of the ithyphallic god Min, coming from predynastic Egypt and dating from the middle of the fifth millennium B.C. It was during this period that the Minoan peoples arrived in Crete (about 4500), as well as in Anatolia, Cyprus, Malta and Santorini. Concepts such as the Yin and Yang - a Chinese transcription of the words Yoni (vulva) and Linga (phallus) -, representing the closely entwined female and male principles, are in no way different from the Linga inserted into the arghia (receptacle ) as used in the Shivaite cult, and indicate the influence of Shivaite symbolism at the very source of Chinese thought. 

The mythology of Tammuz can be traced to before 3000 BCE
1993-2003 ENCARTA Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
Next in importance to the creating deities were the three sky deities, Nanna, the god of the moon; Utu, the sun god; and Inanna, the queen of heaven. Inanna was also the goddess of love, procreation, and war. Nanna was the father of Utu and Inanna. Sumerian poets composed numerous myths about the exploits of Inanna. Another god of great importance was Ninurta, the deity in charge of the violent and destructive south wind. One of the most beloved deities was the shepherd god Dumuzi, the biblical Tammuz.

The Pleiades
The Pleiades seem to be among the first stars mentioned in astronomical literature, appearing in Chinese annals of 2357 B.C. In the Hindu lunar zodiac as the 1st nakshatra, Krittika [Allen notes: The Krittikas were the six nurses of Skanda, the infant god of war, represented by the planet Mars, literally motherless, who took to himself six heads for his better nourishment, and his nurses' name in Karttikeya, Son of the Krittikas.] Karteek, or Kartiguey, the General of the Celestial Armies, probably long before 1730 B.C., when precession carried the equinoctial point into Aries [Brahma].

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumar]Kumar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
Kumar OR Kunwar (Sanskrit: meaning child or Skanda, the Hindu God of War, the Hindu God of Eternal Youth) is a title, a given name or a family name native to India. In many Indian languages, Kumar literally means prince.

Achaemenid Persians were Achaeans? - Ancient Mysteries & Alternative History - Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums
Sorry I was doing the Far East, but this relates to Nordic also ... notice the Togarian and Buddha
KillCarneyKlansman is offline  
Old June 8th, 2012, 12:20 AM   #129

KillCarneyKlansman's Avatar
Joined: Jul 2011
From: Arcadia
Posts: 326
Blog Entries: 53

Great Wall rekindles history row between China and S. Korea
By Shin Hyon-hee in Seoul/The Korea Herald | Asia News Network – 1 hour 33 minutes ago - 11:30 PM 6/7/2012
Great Wall rekindles history row between China and S. Korea - Yahoo! News Singapore

[I also seen this on the news]

The South Korean government said on Thursday it will closely watch whether China's new survey has distorted historic facts to include parts of Korea within the Great Wall area.

China announced on Wednesday that the ancient bulwark is more than two times longer than previously thought. Its first-ever official measurement concluded the structure is 21,196 kilometres long, revising its 2009 estimate of 8,852 kilometres. The research said the wall's eastern parts covered some areas which belonged to ancient Korean kingdoms.

In response, Seoul officials pledged a thorough assessment while cautioning against hasty conclusions. "The government's principle stance is not to overlook any possible history distortion as it directly relates to Koreans' ethnic identity," Foreign Ministry deputy spokesperson Han Hye-jin told a news briefing. Korean historians and activists called the claims "a political attempt to boast its old territorial prowess as a multiethnic country and rationalise its oppression of minority groups"

The agencies claimed to have found that the set of fortifications stretches across 15 provinces including western autonomous municipalities like Xinjiang, and some eastern regions which belonged to Goguryeo and Balhae such as the old Korean kingdoms in what is now northern Korea and southern Manchuria. Chinese researchers said the previous survey only included structures built during the Ming Dynasty, which lasted from 1368 to 1644, but the most recent one covered later empires including Qing and Han.

Controversy arose at the time as the study defined the Bakjak Wall erected by Goguryeo in the currently North Korean border city of Dandong as a previously unknown portion of the Great Wall. It is not immediately clear if the newest report did the same. The former Goguryeo region has repeatedly been a source of diplomatic tension between Seoul and Beijing. China's so-called Northeast Project aimed to verify that northeastern China has always been under its own control. The empire, which lasted from 37 B.C. to 668 A.D., is deemed a golden age that produced scores of distinguished scholars and Buddhist divines. The modern name of Korea also derives from the kingdom.

1993-2003 ENCARTA Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
Dandong, municipality of northeastern China, in Liaoning Province, on the Yalu River, opposite Sinŭiju, North Korea. The largest municipality in eastern Liaoning and a gateway to North Korea

[On the border of the penisula of Liaodong circling the North East China Sea ... Gogoryeo's King Gwangeato pushed it's borders well beyond this, 100 miles ... Paekje held territory in Mainland China in the Shandong provence for a time ... yes a multiplicity of ethnic groups including Jurchen, Mohe and even Goturks from beyond Xinjang occupied these lands in the general vacinity of neighboring tribes ... If the word they use in the future contains the word Han, I'm just blowing this off ... see China manipulates to ... so anyways, we should be hearing more of this in the future, should be interesting]
KillCarneyKlansman is offline  
Old June 14th, 2012, 08:12 PM   #130

KillCarneyKlansman's Avatar
Joined: Jul 2011
From: Arcadia
Posts: 326
Blog Entries: 53


Ranghaya, Sixteenth Vendidad Nation & Western Aryan Lands
The land of Rangha would have referred to the northern Tigris & Euphrates basins. However, the river could also have been the Kizilirmak (Halys) River which ran through Hatti, the predecessor to Cappadocia. Both the Euphrates and the Halys have at some point formed western boundaries for the Persian empires. The extent of Ranghaya could have included Lake Van in the east.

Ranghaya could also have included Urartu around Lake Van, and the Mitanni kingdom in the land of the Hurrians located southwest of Lake Van. In c. 1400 BCE a Mitanni king entered into a peace treaty with the neighbouring Hittite king. The peace treaty which was recorded in rock inscriptions and carvings, invoked Indo-Iranian gods: asuras Varuna and Mitra, as well as devas Indra and the Nasatyas.

Olympic Flame & Zoroastrianism Page 2
The indoor hearths of Hestia were housed in a building called a Prytaneum / Prytaneion. The indoor altar of Hestia in the Prytaneum is reminiscent of the Persian Pyraetheia tended by the magi and referred to by Strabo.

Aia, Aeetes, and his family appear again in the well known story of Jason and the Argonauts, one of the oldest of Greek myths. Both Medea and her aunt Circe have extensive knowledge of the healing plants and medicines (cf. Haoma). The Homeric myths allude to a migration of Aia soldiers and Medea westward.

Aryan Homeland, Airyana Vaeja, in the Avesta. Aryan lands and Zoroastrianism.
As the Aryans migrated to the lands of their neighbours, they did not displace the original inhabitants. When the Persian Aryans eventually settled the southern Iran plateau, the area was populated by the Elamites with whom the Persians integrated. An examination of the present linguistic composition of Iran reveals that other, non Indo-Iranian linguistic groups are interspersed among Persian linguistic groups.

Eastern Asia Minor and the Caucasus in Ancient Mythologies, Armenian, Georgian, Mythology, V. Hehn, Botany, Metallurgy, Volcanic environment, dense forests, Mountains, using mythological material, Armenia, Myths
References to eastern Asia Minor and the Caucasus appear in the most ancient extant myths of humanity. These references and/or allusions, which are not numerous, nonetheless bespeak some acquaintance by diverse peoples with the area east of the Halys river and west of the Caspian Sea, an area including what is today central and eastern Turkey, Armenia, Georgia, and Azerbaijan. Trade and migrations were the two principal conduits by which goods and people passed to and from this area, and impressions were left in the early literature of the Greeks, Mesopotamians, Hurrians and Indo-Iranians

Eastern Asia Minor and the Caucasus were (and remain) blessed with great mineral wealth. The abundance of copper, iron, gold, silver, lead and zinc, and their presence in outcroppings of rocks which did not require extensive mining, led to the early development of metallurgy here ... some scholars have suggested that the horse-drawn war chariot was developed or perfected in eastern Asia Minor. Built from native hardwoods and strengthened with metal alloys, this invention gave the local populations such a military advantage that they were easily able to subdue or control their neighbors, who fought as horseless infantry. In the view of a recent study, sometime in the second millennium B.C., bands of armed warriors, riding in horse-drawn chariots left eastern Asia Minor, eventually reaching Greece, the Levant, Egypt, Mesopotamia, Iran, and India ... Whatever the validity of the diffusionist hypotheses, the features of ancient Asia Minor and the Caucasus mentioned above: volcanic activity, dense forests, botanical and biological diversity, and metallurgical advances are clearly reflected in the myths referring or alluding to this area.
KillCarneyKlansman is offline  

  Historum > Themes in History > Speculative History

danites, lost, peoples, sea, tribes, wanderings

Search tags for this page
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Where did the Germanic peoples come from? Sandberg European History 484 August 27th, 2014 01:26 PM
What happened to the 10 lost tribes of Israel? Nick Ancient History 31 September 30th, 2013 03:10 AM
Who were the Sea Peoples? Niki86 Ancient History 22 March 1st, 2011 04:20 PM
Sea Peoples Sargon of Akkad Ancient History 10 December 8th, 2009 01:48 PM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.