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Old October 24th, 2012, 07:27 PM   #221

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Originally Posted by deke View Post
Except for the fact that the british annexed in in 1914 by invasion.
Good on them for doing that, since the people of AP have clearly stated their intent to stay with India, China has no claim and its historical position is irrelevant and superceded by right of self determination.


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wrong. Fringe separatists in hawaii do not have to take up arms to fight for their freedom, unlike manipuris, nagas, or assamese. Please show me how many people are actually agitating for xinjiang and tibet independence, and explain to me why exactly should the CTA have khamba and amdo forked over to them when people there explicitly reject tibetan rule, despite the CTAs claims on amdo and khamba. And the same goes for xinjiang where "uyghur" separatists claim all of ili as their historic homeland and say all non uyghur have to go.
Give a nutbar a gun, they will do their business with a gun. it is widely accepted that Chinese elements supplies the rebels in Indian far east with guns, but there is no mass scale demonstration or demand for independence in those areas.

As for tibet goes, China is in a far inferior position, as it does not even let those seperatists have a voice. When China can act in a civilized way that India and various other nations act, we can talk. Till then China is nothing more than a despotic power in conquered territories.


Quote:
wrong again. The japanese general fukushima explicitly warned the allies to let the chinese army escape or they would fight to the death, and it was a japanese soldier who blew the gate open, almost risking his life since other allied soldiers wouldnt do it,
People who would fight to the death but then chose to run away when an escape route was formed ? How vailant!
Further props to the allied- they attained their objective while incurring less casualties.



Quote:
if americas superiority in air would wipe out the entire chinese military, explain why america has failed to wipe out its enemies in afghanistan, who don't have an airforce or antiaircraft weapons.
Because it is a damn sight easier wiping out military bases from the air than guerilla hideouts.
Nobody said that US air superiority will result in complete pacification of China- it is not possible without putting boots on the ground.
But what is obvious, is that US will be able to wipe out Chinese military installations and their military bases with far greater efficiency and effectiveness than China would be able to. This is what conventional military superiority leads to against a conventional force.
I am sure if US wanted to and somehow nukes were completely off the table, it would reduce the Chinese army to a bunch of cave-dwellers as well.
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Old October 24th, 2012, 07:44 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by Lord_of_Gauda View Post
Good on them for doing that, since the people of AP have clearly stated their intent to stay with India, China has no claim and its historical position is irrelevant and superceded by right of self determination.
Did you ask every single person in AP if they wanted to be part of india?

Quote:
Give a nutbar a gun, they will do their business with a gun. it is widely accepted that Chinese elements supplies the rebels in Indian far east with guns, but there is no mass scale demonstration or demand for independence in those areas.

As for tibet goes, China is in a far inferior position, as it does not even let those seperatists have a voice. When China can act in a civilized way that India and various other nations act, we can talk. Till then China is nothing more than a despotic power in conquered territories.
India gives "nutbars" weapons in baluchistan. Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house. There is no wide scale demonstration or demand for independence in baluchistan. there have been numerous complains about human rights violations by the indian military in manipur and assam

Women Rage Against 'Rape' in Northeast India

RAPE: The Hated Weapon of The Indian Armed Forces | Assam Portal

Rape attempt by Indian Army – Public hearing over Demow molestation begins

Indian Army personnel rape a twelve year old girl in Assam

Quote:
People who would fight to the death but then chose to run away when an escape route was formed ? How vailant!
Further props to the allied- they attained their objective while incurring less casualties.
the reason why many germans in berlin in ww2 refused to surrender to the soviets was because a) they had no escape route b) they would be tortured and worked to death in prison camps if they surrendered. If someone gave them an escape route they would all have taken it to safety.

Quote:
Because it is a damn sight easier wiping out military bases from the air than guerilla hideouts.
Nobody said that US air superiority will result in complete pacification of China- it is not possible without putting boots on the ground.
But what is obvious, is that US will be able to wipe out Chinese military installations and their military bases with far greater efficiency and effectiveness than China would be able to. This is what conventional military superiority leads to against a conventional force.
I am sure if US wanted to and somehow nukes were completely off the table, it would reduce the Chinese army to a bunch of cave-dwellers as well.
Except china has manpad anti aircraft weapons, and more advanced anti tank missles than rpgs, unlike the taliban and can threaten jets and helicopters without vehicle driven batteries or missles. The taliban have extremely low technology, they make bombs out of fertilizer, not out of proper military explosives, their arsenal is crap.
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Old October 24th, 2012, 07:51 PM   #223

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Did you ask every single person in AP if they wanted to be part of india?
No, but short of a referendum, there is no way to determine that. What we do know is that AP has never revolted against India and has held quite a few populist demonstrations showing their support for being Indian and decrying Chinese violation of the border around Tawang.
That is proof enough that AP folks want nothing to do with China.


Quote:
India gives "nutbars" weapons in baluchistan. Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house. There is no wide scale demonstration or demand for independence in baluchistan.
We would need some evidence for that. Chinese support for Naga rebels are easy to substantiate, since they use Chinese built assault rifles with callibres that only China uses.
What evidence do we have for Indian support of baloch rebels ?

Quote:
there have been numerous complains about human rights violations by the indian military in manipur and assam
and that surprises you ? Where there be a huge military presence, there be human rights violations. but what does surprise me is the persistent human rights violation in civillian areas of China were all non-friendly elements to the communist dictatorship have their human rights violated.

Quote:
the reason why many germans in berlin in ww2 refused to surrender to the soviets was because a) they had no escape route b) they would be tortured and worked to death in prison camps if they surrendered. If someone gave them an escape route they would all have taken it to safety.
Good for them. So what ? The point is, the battle you cited clearly shows the Allied victory despite being outmanned,taking minimal casualties, while retaining its objective. What else do we want from a victorious force ? a perfect KPD record ?!?


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Except china has manpad anti aircraft weapons, and more advanced anti tank missles than rpgs, unlike the taliban and can threaten jets and helicopters without vehicle driven batteries or missles. The taliban have extremely low technology, they make bombs out of fertilizer, not out of proper military explosives, their arsenal is crap.
A small matter of Chinese have no hope in hell to detect the F-22s. What you cannot see, you cannot shoot.
USA will also inundate China with navy based missile bombing and a UAV attack that China has no counter for.
Are you still arguing that Chinese military has any hope in hell against the US military in a conventional war !? Seriously ?!
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Old October 24th, 2012, 08:03 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by Lord_of_Gauda View Post
No, but short of a referendum, there is no way to determine that. What we do know is that AP has never revolted against India and has held quite a few populist demonstrations showing their support for being Indian and decrying Chinese violation of the border around Tawang.
That is proof enough that AP folks want nothing to do with China.
and the indian military is stationed in AP and you say that people voluntarily demonstrate to show their pride in being indian, i guess if indonesia annexes papau new guinea, and new guineans start demonstrating and say they are indonesia that its all voluntary.

Quote:
We would need some evidence for that. Chinese support for Naga rebels are easy to substantiate, since they use Chinese built assault rifles with callibres that only China uses.
What evidence do we have for Indian support of baloch rebels ?
an ak-47 is a generic weapon and thousands flood black markets worldwide.

India, iraq, afghanistan, and the soviet union all supported baluchi rebels in iran and pakistan

The Friday Times:Caught! (But what?) by Shahid Saeed

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and that surprises you ? Where there be a huge military presence, there be human rights violations. but what does surprise me is the persistent human rights violation in civillian areas of China were all non-friendly elements to the communist dictatorship have their human rights violated.
there is a huge military presence not because of garrisons or eatablished bases, but because the military in assam and manipur is charged with suppresing manipuri and assamese rebels in the area. They are supposed to be civilian areas,

Quote:
Good for them. So what ? The point is, the battle you cited clearly shows the Allied victory despite being outmanned,taking minimal casualties, while retaining its objective. What else do we want from a victorious force ? a perfect KPD record ?!?
It shows that the america army (9th infantry ) was being massive incompetent in getting a large percentage of its force killed and wounded, including their commanding officer and several other officers among the dead. If you charge an unscalable wall with snipers on it you are going to get shot.

Quote:
A small matter of Chinese have no hope in hell to detect the F-22s. What you cannot see, you cannot shoot.
USA will also inundate China with navy based missile bombing and a UAV attack that China has no counter for.
Are you still arguing that Chinese military has any hope in hell against the US military in a conventional war !? Seriously ?!
China has ship killing missles and the usa will have to target literally millions of different places in china.
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Old October 24th, 2012, 08:15 PM   #225

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Originally Posted by deke View Post
and the indian military is stationed in AP and you say that people voluntarily demonstrate to show their pride in being indian, i guess if indonesia annexes papau new guinea, and new guineans start demonstrating and say they are indonesia that its all voluntary.
To prove that it isn't a voluntary action in a free democratic country with media freedom, you need to substantiate the accusations.
It is very clear that the AP popular opinion is to side with India, not join the despotate of China.

Quote:
an ak-47 is a generic weapon and thousands flood black markets worldwide.
Except we are talking about 5.8x42mm callibre and type 87 Rifles which originates from China and finds its way into the hands of Naga rebels.

Look, Chinese arms support of rebels in the region are very well documented, predominantly because the unique Chinese callibres used by the rebels.

Quote:
India, iraq, afghanistan, and the soviet union all supported baluchi rebels in iran and pakistan
Sure, on a political level. I would need some hard evidence to suggest it also has a military component to it


Quote:
there is a huge military presence not because of garrisons or eatablished bases, but because the military in assam and manipur is charged with suppresing manipuri and assamese rebels in the area. They are supposed to be civilian areas,
False. There is a huge military presence there because Indian military doctrine is to hold the NE states with the Chicken's neck being cut off in a military scenario with China. As such, those troops are there to stay, currently they are engaged in anti-terrorist activities but India has maintained a huge military presence in Assam and Manipur since the 1962 war with China that it thoroughly lost.


Quote:
It shows that the america army (9th infantry ) was being massive incompetent in getting a large percentage of its force killed and wounded, including their commanding officer and several other officers among the dead. If you charge an unscalable wall with snipers on it you are going to get shot.
a 10% casaulty rate for defending forces, while being outnumbered 2:1 is, by definition a highly successful defence action when meeting the operational objective.



Quote:
China has ship killing missles and the usa will have to target literally millions of different places in china.
Chinese ship killing missiles are irrelevant- USA has them too and US navy will obliterate Chinese navy without so much as breaking a sweat. Infact, the USN is powerful enough to take on the rest of the world's combined navy and win at a canter.

again, i will ask- are you seriously suggesting that China has a shot in hell to win against the US in a conventional military fight ? Seriously ?
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Old October 25th, 2012, 05:28 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by Lord_of_Gauda View Post
To prove that it isn't a voluntary action in a free democratic country with media freedom, you need to substantiate the accusations.
It is very clear that the AP popular opinion is to side with India, not join the despotate of China.



Except we are talking about 5.8x42mm callibre and type 87 Rifles which originates from China and finds its way into the hands of Naga rebels.

Look, Chinese arms support of rebels in the region are very well documented, predominantly because the unique Chinese callibres used by the rebels.



Sure, on a political level. I would need some hard evidence to suggest it also has a military component to it




False. There is a huge military presence there because Indian military doctrine is to hold the NE states with the Chicken's neck being cut off in a military scenario with China. As such, those troops are there to stay, currently they are engaged in anti-terrorist activities but India has maintained a huge military presence in Assam and Manipur since the 1962 war with China that it thoroughly lost.



a 10% casaulty rate for defending forces, while being outnumbered 2:1 is, by definition a highly successful defence action when meeting the operational objective.





Chinese ship killing missiles are irrelevant- USA has them too and US navy will obliterate Chinese navy without so much as breaking a sweat. Infact, the USN is powerful enough to take on the rest of the world's combined navy and win at a canter.

again, i will ask- are you seriously suggesting that China has a shot in hell to win against the US in a conventional military fight ? Seriously ?
In every one of your posts, you fail to cire your sourcea and come up with stuff made out of thin air like chinese ammunition and guns being supplied to manipur.

During the 1800s and early 1900s, america both had media freedom and segregation. Racism and media freedom are not incompatible, especially with jingoistic yellow journalism which makes up most of indias press

The armed forces special powers act was passed for kashmir, nagaland, manipur, assam, and other places in 1958

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irom_Chanu_Sharmila]Irom Chanu Sharmila - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act, 1958 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The manipuris started their insurgency as soon as india became independent in 1948, before the communists took over china, your made up claims that china started e insurgency and that its china that makes the indian military abuse manipuris is a massive joke.

Most armies of free, democratic nations don't have consistent records of raping the civilian women in places where they are stationed.

India has demanded that the burmese military help in supressing manipuri and naga insurgents.

Women from northeast india have to live in fear of rape just because they look east asian.

The Hindu : Opinion / Op-Ed : Let's stop pretending there's no racism in India

Fear of rape: The experience of women in Northeast India

A Girl from Manipur Raped in Delhi - VIRTHLI

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdLlIHoUVgM"]North-East people discriminated in Delhi - YouTube[/ame]

Manipur Students Association Delhi - Condemn Racism in India & Call for Peace - KanglaOnline

Stop Indian police atrocities on anti-trafficking activist

America was conisdered free and democratic, while cops ignored KKK lynchings.

India has already been labeled the worst country for women

India worst place for women among top 19 economies, Canada best - Hindustan Times

India the Worst Big Country to Be a Woman - NYTimes.com

The indian police has its hands tied up in the sex trafficking industry. Being a democratic country means nothing if you have a culture steeped in racism and bigotry. A democratic country made out of a racist, sexist culture can be more cruel and oppresie than a dictatorship, a democratic country can oppress and rape minorities, your tripe about china being a dictatorship is an attempt to obfuscatate the massive human rights abuses of "democracies".

You consistently fail to cite sources when people ask for them. People have already started complaining about this kind of behavior to the mods.

Last edited by deke; October 25th, 2012 at 06:07 PM.
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Old October 25th, 2012, 05:49 PM   #227

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Historically, sea power overcomes land power.

China is a continental power. The US is a maritime power.
And air power pretty much trumps the both of them.
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Old October 25th, 2012, 05:51 PM   #228

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And air power pretty much trumps the both of them.
Didn't work in Vietnam, Korea, or Afghanistan.
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Old October 25th, 2012, 05:52 PM   #229

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Originally Posted by pikeshot1600 View Post
Historically, sea power overcomes land power.
Peloponesian War's outcome must have been different from what I remembered.
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Old October 25th, 2012, 06:00 PM   #230

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Didn't work in Vietnam, Korea, or Afghanistan.
It would have if they were dropping the right bombs.
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