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Old November 18th, 2012, 08:48 AM   #261

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Originally Posted by okamido View Post
Honestly, despite the fact that were are militarily and technologically superior, I believe that China would win as we no longer seem to have the will to do what it takes for victory. Our warrior culture is completely at the whim of our civilian culture, and our civilian culture is weak.

The cilvillian culture does indeeed need to be taken into account. During much of the last century there seemed a willingness on the part of the people of the west to accept appaling casualty figures without complaint.
Those days seem to have gone.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 09:58 AM   #262

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The cilvillian culture does indeeed need to be taken into account. During much of the last century there seemed a willingness on the part of the people of the west to accept appaling casualty figures without complaint.
Those days seem to have gone.
Haah! Your turning in to Europe!
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Old November 19th, 2012, 11:36 AM   #263
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Exclamation America would dominate...


America would clearly dominate a war between the two countries in conventional warfare.
This is because the Chinese army is huge and close to unbeatable but their effectiveness is extremely low for instance the United States can dispatch a special forces Navy Seals team to anywhere in the world in just a few hours. This is because of their excellent Navy and Air Force. They still have the greatest Navy in the world and have huge nuclear motorized Airplane carriers. They can fly bombardments on almost all main Chinese cities which are all located on the Coasts all the time and create huge economical pressure for China. The Chinese army would be absolute obsolete.
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Old November 19th, 2012, 12:11 PM   #264

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Don't count out the Chinese. While the United States Army is superb, the Chinese have a huge edge in numbers and quality of their small arms. The USA makes up for that in experience and clearly superior heavy weapons- the tanks, artillery, and anti-tank and anti-material weapons.

The main edge the USA has over every other nation, and will maintain for the foreseeable future, is its comprehensive experience in battle. For the last sixty years the US military has been learning the hard way. It sucks, but the end result is an organization that is prepared to fight everything from the Nazis to godzilla. This experience edge is reinforced by dominance in air power and naval superiority.

So while I agree with you, PinkPanter, that the US military comes out in front of the Chinese, its not due to the effectiveness of the Chinese military- they train both hard and smart. We in the US just have better toys and a hell of a lot more experience.

Its a good thing we'll never fight though. That'd be nasty.
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Old November 20th, 2012, 09:12 AM   #265
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Exclamation Nukes never ment anything in ware fare...


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I know all of that. I am just mocking all this talk of nukes being the only thing that matters in war. I didnt make the argument. I am pointing out why it is ridiculous.
Nukes don't mean anything in Warfare and have never meant anything in Ware fare. This is because what is the good in having nuked out a country. Firstly I guarantee the same amount of nukes will fly back and second of all would you rely on nuking a place that you are wishing to annex or dominate in the long run?
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Old November 21st, 2012, 11:25 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by PinkPanter456 View Post
America would clearly dominate a war between the two countries in conventional warfare.
This is because the Chinese army is huge and close to unbeatable but their effectiveness is extremely low for instance the United States can dispatch a special forces Navy Seals team to anywhere in the world in just a few hours. This is because of their excellent Navy and Air Force. They still have the greatest Navy in the world and have huge nuclear motorized Airplane carriers. They can fly bombardments on almost all main Chinese cities which are all located on the Coasts all the time and create huge economical pressure for China. The Chinese army would be absolute obsolete.
China has anti aircraft missles, both SAM and shoulder fired manpads, it has carrier killing missles, and ballistic missles which can destroy the enemy air force and navy. Navy seals are for carrying out missions like assasinations or attacking guerillas. They are of no use against conventional forces if your aim is to destroy them.

The taliban has none of those which is why america can bomb anywhere they want there. They don't have manpads, sams, or any advanced equipment, they used rpgs, ak-47s an IEDs made from fertilizer.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 07:55 PM   #267

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US would maybe win a war with China if they fought maybe in a distant land equal distant to both countries. However is not possible by either of the countries.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 08:56 PM   #268

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I don't think you can speculate without also including a cause for the conflict. It is the events that spark conflicts that determine the objectives of the two warring parties, and those objectives have a large impact both on how and where the war is fought and on the chances of either side achieving its war aims.

What would be the most likely trigger for an armed conflict between the United States and China?

At the moment I'd say the most likely trigger would be any aggressive military action by China, against Taiwan.

If the war were over Taiwan, at the moment the US would be a much safer bet to come out on top. It has a far superior navy and superior air power, and any invasion of Taiwan must be launched and sustained from the sea. China's chances of being successful in such a war would be rather small. Far more likely would be that the war would end with China's Navy being destroyed, and the invading/occupying force in Taiwan being cut off from reinforcement and destroyed as well.

Of course the above scenario is a bit outside the scope of this thread, since Taiwan would obviously also be involved in the conflict. But I think that Taiwan declaring independence has the largest likelihood of sparking an armed conflict between itself and China, and drawing in the United States.

A lengthy ground campaign on the Asian mainland would favor China, which has extremely deep manpower reserves and is a country that is both incredibly vast and difficult to occupy. That sort of ground campaign would not be needed however if the objective of the war was simply to drive the Chinese out of Taiwan. If Taiwan is the flashpoint, victory is won in Taiwan and at sea.

Last edited by Scaeva; November 24th, 2012 at 09:09 PM.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 10:36 PM   #269

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Originally Posted by Scaeva View Post
I don't think you can speculate without also including a cause for the conflict. It is the events that spark conflicts that determine the objectives of the two warring parties, and those objectives have a large impact both on how and where the war is fought and on the chances of either side achieving its war aims.

What would be the most likely trigger for an armed conflict between the United States and China?

At the moment I'd say the most likely trigger would be any aggressive military action by China, against Taiwan.

If the war were over Taiwan, at the moment the US would be a much safer bet to come out on top. It has a far superior navy and superior air power, and any invasion of Taiwan must be launched and sustained from the sea. China's chances of being successful in such a war would be rather small. Far more likely would be that the war would end with China's Navy being destroyed, and the invading/occupying force in Taiwan being cut off from reinforcement and destroyed as well.

Of course the above scenario is a bit outside the scope of this thread, since Taiwan would obviously also be involved in the conflict. But I think that Taiwan declaring independence has the largest likelihood of sparking an armed conflict between itself and China, and drawing in the United States.

A lengthy ground campaign on the Asian mainland would favor China, which has extremely deep manpower reserves and is a country that is both incredibly vast and difficult to occupy. That sort of ground campaign would not be needed however if the objective of the war was simply to drive the Chinese out of Taiwan. If Taiwan is the flashpoint, victory is won in Taiwan and at sea.
The Republic of China has declared their independence. They are independent. The believe that they are the true China and the other is the pretender. The People's Republic only uses this terminology as a face saving measure.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 10:58 PM   #270
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The Republic of China has declared their independence. They are independent. The believe that they are the true China and the other is the pretender. The People's Republic only uses this terminology as a face saving measure.
The ROC rejected mongolia from entering the UN for years on the grounds that it was a province of the ROC, until they were threatened with the soviet union holding every other nation up as they applied to the UN by rejecting their applications.
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