Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > Themes in History > Speculative History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Speculative History Speculative History Forum - Alternate History, What If Questions, Pseudo History, and anything outside the boundaries of mainstream historical research


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old September 13th, 2011, 01:22 PM   #1
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: Sep 2010
From: Somewhere in the former First French Empire
Posts: 3,537
China vs USA


What if a war would break out tomorrow between the United States of American and China. No allies involved just the two. Let's pressume that both countries are wise enough not to use nuclear weapons who would win?

People's Republic of China?


Population: 1,338,612,968
Capital: Beijing
Government: Presidental republic with one party in charge
Idealogy: Communism
Economy: Increasing
Moral: Strong support towards the government
Military status: Ready for war
Military achievements/failures the last 100 years:

- Northern expedition
- Defeated during the Japanese invasion
- Victory during the Chinese civil war
- Relative succes in the Korean war
- Involvement in Vietnam

Military:
- Army: 1,700,000 (800,000 in reserve)
- 5000 main battle tanks
- 5,500 armoured personnel carriers
2,200 infantry fighting vehicles
- 25,000 artillery pieces
- Air force: 300,000
- 2,500 aircrafts
- Navy: 250,000
- 1 Aircraft Carrier
- 26 Destroyers
- 50 Frigates
- 65 submarines
- 58 amphibious warfare ships
- 80 coastal warfare vessels
- 27 large landing ships
- 31 medium landings ships
- Technology: Mediocre

United States of America?


Population: 308,745,538
Capital: Washington
Government: Federal presidential constitutional republic
Idealogy: Liberalism/Capitalism
Economy: Decreasing
Moral: Patriotic but tired of war
Military status: Exhausted from recent wars
Military achievements/failures the last 100 years:

- Aiding in winning world war I
- Winning world war II
- Relative succes during the Korean war
- An utter failure at the Vietnam war
- Relative succes during the golf war
- Pyrhic victory in both Iraq and Afghanistan

Military:
- Army: 561,984 (567,299 in reserve)
- 6,200 main battle tanks
- 11,800 armoured personnel carriers
- 6,724 infantry fighting vehicles
- 25,000 artillery pieces
- Air force: 329,638
- 5,573 aircrafts
- Navy: 250,000
- 11 Aircraft Carriers
- 60 Destroyers
- 27 Frigates
- 75 submarines
- 9 amphibious warfare ships
- 12 large landing ships
- 22 Cruisers
- Technology: Very High

Who would win and why?
jeroenrottgering is offline  
Remove Ads
Old September 13th, 2011, 01:56 PM   #2
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,721

Historically, sea power overcomes land power.

China is a continental power. The US is a maritime power.
pikeshot1600 is offline  
Old September 13th, 2011, 01:56 PM   #3

Rasta's Avatar
Spiritual Ronin
 
Joined: Aug 2009
From: Minnesnowta
Posts: 21,071

The USA would win because our Navy and technology are superior. An invasion on either side would be very costly though, I think.
Rasta is offline  
Old September 13th, 2011, 02:05 PM   #4
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,721

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasta View Post
The USA would win because our Navy and technology are superior. An invasion on either side would be very costly though, I think.
Neither side could, or would try to, sustain any "invasion." Wars of the second half of the 20th century are illustrative. The two rivals would play out much of their conflict (over their vital interests) in other geographical locations, and by proxy as far as possible...Vietnam; Afghanistan.

The US and the USSR did that for forty-five years and never fought each other.
pikeshot1600 is offline  
Old September 13th, 2011, 02:19 PM   #5

Rasta's Avatar
Spiritual Ronin
 
Joined: Aug 2009
From: Minnesnowta
Posts: 21,071

Quote:
Originally Posted by pikeshot1600 View Post
Neither side could, or would try to, sustain any "invasion." Wars of the second half of the 20th century are illustrative. The two rivals would play out much of their conflict (over their vital interests) in other geographical locations, and by proxy as far as possible...Vietnam; Afghanistan.

The US and the USSR did that for forty-five years and never fought each other.
Yep. Good point.
Rasta is offline  
Old September 13th, 2011, 02:29 PM   #6

General Michael Collins's Avatar
Resident Fenian
¤ Member of the Year ¤
 
Joined: Oct 2010
From: Éire
Posts: 6,414

Proxy war might be more likely but direct conflict is not impossible ... like in the Korean War, for example.
General Michael Collins is offline  
Old September 13th, 2011, 02:43 PM   #7
Historian
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,721

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Michael Collins View Post
Proxy war might be more likely but direct conflict is not impossible ... like in the Korean War, for example.
In 1950, China was the proxy of the USSR.
pikeshot1600 is offline  
Old September 13th, 2011, 02:56 PM   #8

General Michael Collins's Avatar
Resident Fenian
¤ Member of the Year ¤
 
Joined: Oct 2010
From: Éire
Posts: 6,414

Quote:
Originally Posted by pikeshot1600 View Post
In 1950, China was the proxy of the USSR.
Isn't that rather debatable?
General Michael Collins is offline  
Old September 13th, 2011, 03:05 PM   #9

okamido's Avatar
knows what the bee knows
 
Joined: Jun 2009
From: land of Califia
Posts: 27,892
Blog Entries: 20

Honestly, despite the fact that were are militarily and technologically superior, I believe that China would win as we no longer seem to have the will to do what it takes for victory. Our warrior culture is completely at the whim of our civilian culture, and our civilian culture is weak.
okamido is offline  
Old September 13th, 2011, 05:45 PM   #10

Charlie Bravo's Avatar
"What's he doin?"
 
Joined: Dec 2010
From: New Orleans
Posts: 5,293

Quote:
Originally Posted by okamido View Post
Honestly, despite the fact that were are militarily and technologically superior, I believe that China would win as we no longer seem to have the will to do what it takes for victory. Our warrior culture is completely at the whim of our civilian culture, and our civilian culture is weak.
I see your point but I think in this case I'd disagree. I think it's a lot more likely that our civilian culture would commit to a total war against uniformed opponents than the vague and nebulous "patrol" warfare against insurgents that we're currently engaged in, especially if China started the conflict. I think our civilian culture is alrady galvanized towards supporting our warrior culture, and a bloody nose from an actual military force as opposed to shady terrorists who blend into the civilian population would naturally be easier for civilians to not only swallow but get behind fully.
Charlie Bravo is offline  
Reply

  Historum > Themes in History > Speculative History

Tags
china, usa


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Neolithic China, the China you do not know about. Wadjet Horus Asian History 40 June 16th, 2011 10:52 PM
Saying Hello from China/CA~ Mono New Users 18 March 20th, 2010 09:36 AM
Hello from China buckhardt New Users 11 January 10th, 2009 09:26 AM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.