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View Poll Results: Most powerful empire that ever existed?
Roman Empire 111 31.53%
Ottoman Empire 17 4.83%
Mongol Empire 29 8.24%
Spanish Empire 3 0.85%
Napoleon Empire 9 2.56%
Qing Empire 7 1.99%
Imperalist Japan 0 0%
Portuguese Empire 2 0.57%
Third Reich 9 2.56%
British Empire 112 31.82%
Soviet Union - USSR 13 3.69%
Dutch Empire 0 0%
Byzantine Empire 5 1.42%
Italian Empire 0 0%
Swedish Empire 1 0.28%
Other Empire (mention) 34 9.66%
Voters: 352. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 1st, 2012, 10:13 AM   #591

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sylla1 View Post
Not exactly.

According to UN estimations Quing China in 1800 had some 260 millions of some 978 millions total humans of this Planet, i.e. like 26.6 % (roughly one quarter) of the world population.

According to the Nuttal Encyclopedia, by 1907 (previous to WW1) there were some 416 millions in Quing China versus some 400 millions in the British Empire; by 1922 some 475 millions (Populstat) versus 458 millions (Angus Maddison), respectively.

I find that Qing population too low.

The Chinese census, P.278 The Asiatic journal and monthly register for British and foreign India ... - Google Libros and P.276 Before the European Challenge: The Great Civilizations of Asia and the ... - Jaroslav Krejčí, Anna Krejčová - Google Libros

gave in 1812, 362 million people for China. Considering that census usually underestimated the population, most probably was higher. In 1775, the census gave 264 million. So in 1800, the population could be 330 million.

The lowest stimation I've read is 295 million, P.3 http://web.whittier.edu/people/webpa...el_remarks.pdf


In noyway the 260 millions can be considered correct, in fact, I think they took the 1775 census data.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 08:13 PM   #592
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The Annunaki are the most powerful empire ever....they were unmatchable in their day and had true global control (as much as any one race or peoples can have full control, anyway)
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Old December 11th, 2012, 11:46 AM   #593

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Why did this thread become about bean counting populations in China?

This thread is about the glory and grandeur of history's great Empires and with all votes counted it would seem, we are back to square one.

The British Empire, holds an indelible spot in the hearts of minds of those the world over. There are some here who will nitpick GDP or population, but lets be honest. In this case the devil is not in the detail. This is a big picture fight and in the end the British, not the French, or the Qing or Mongols or anyone else stands as a shining example of what a sometime violent and brutal political ideology in Empire, could be when run by men of just values and steadfast will. The British Empire was the best of the Empires. Will there be incidents of racism and brutal repression? Yes. Are these incidents far fewer then in any other historical Empire? Most certainly. Empire in all it's imperfection was taken and exemplified and regaled thanks to the British, who united on a small island in Northern Europe and through grit, will power, and righteous self aggrandizement and capitalist zeal brought the world an Empire with no equal and sadly we many never again see it's like.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 12:05 PM   #594

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paragonrex View Post
Why did this thread become about bean counting populations in China?

This thread is about the glory and grandeur of history's great Empires and with all votes counted it would seem, we are back to square one.

The British Empire, holds an indelible spot in the hearts of minds of those the world over. There are some here who will nitpick GDP or population, but lets be honest. In this case the devil is not in the detail. This is a big picture fight and in the end the British, not the French, or the Qing or Mongols or anyone else stands as a shining example of what a sometime violent and brutal political ideology in Empire, could be when run by men of just values and steadfast will. The British Empire was the best of the Empires. Will there be incidents of racism and brutal repression? Yes. Are these incidents far fewer then in any other historical Empire? Most certainly. Empire in all it's imperfection was taken and exemplified and regaled thanks to the British, who united on a small island in Northern Europe and through grit, will power, and righteous self aggrandizement and capitalist zeal brought the world an Empire with no equal and sadly we many never again see it's like.
Although not considered an "Empire" the American Hegemony far surpasses any of the qualifications you have ascribed to the British Empire. And as is so common in the past, most successive Empires are the progeny of preceding ones.
The American Hegemony did go the British one step further. No other Empire in history has ever treated any "defeated" peoples as did the Americans after all the wars it fought since WW2. Never was so much largesse and economic assistance given. The American Hegemony at least learned the lesson of not totally economically abusing its' defeated opponents. Something the European allies and the British failed to learn after WW1. Reactions to the defeated German-Austrian peoples that caused, in many ways, the conditions that lead to WW2 in Europe. Americans have moved the political guideposts to a new understanding of how to deal with conquered peoples. It may be a very clever economic adjustment, but most reasonable people would consider it an improvement over the standards of imperialism.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 12:27 PM   #595

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Originally Posted by Zarin View Post
Although not considered an "Empire" the American Hegemony far surpasses any of the qualifications you have ascribed to the British Empire. And as is so common in the past, most successive Empires are the progeny of preceding ones.
The American Hegemony did go the British one step further. No other Empire in history has ever treated any "defeated" peoples as did the Americans after all the wars it fought since WW2. Never was so much largesse and economic assistance given. The American Hegemony at least learned the lesson of not totally economically abusing its' defeated opponents. Something the European allies and the British failed to learn after WW1. Reactions to the defeated German-Austrian peoples that caused, in many ways, the conditions that lead to WW2 in Europe. Americans have moved the political guideposts to a new understanding of how to deal with conquered peoples. It may be a very clever economic adjustment, but most reasonable people would consider it an improvement over the standards of imperialism.

I can easily agree with much of what your saying Zarin, with minor exceptions.

1. The British were against the stiff penalty's that were levied on Germany. Those were mostly the work of the French...and surprise surprise the Americans.

2. While America's economic assistance to Europe was in theory benevolent. In actuality it was based off of self interest and vile capitalism. The United States knew the Soviet Empire would be in the bird seat after the war. The quick rebuilding of Europe to serve as a bulwark to the Soviets was of the utmost importance to the long term strategic interest of the U.S. Also in the process they turned most of western Europe into economic vassals to the U.S. as demonstrated by the Suez canal and the British sadly being forced to withdraw due to the knife in the back from the U.S. in the form of threatening to withdraw economic assistance.

America was anything but the great and benevolent victor
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Old December 11th, 2012, 03:36 PM   #596

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I think that this question is not about population or land area, but about stability.

If that is the case, then I choose the Roman Empire. Augustus stabilized it into an Empire, and he organized more Praetorian units as well, to keep the people under control.

-Artifex
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Old December 11th, 2012, 07:27 PM   #597

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Originally Posted by Paragonrex View Post
I can easily agree with much of what your saying Zarin, with minor exceptions.

1. The British were against the stiff penalty's that were levied on Germany. Those were mostly the work of the French...and surprise surprise the Americans.

2. While America's economic assistance to Europe was in theory benevolent. In actuality it was based off of self interest and vile capitalism. The United States knew the Soviet Empire would be in the bird seat after the war. The quick rebuilding of Europe to serve as a bulwark to the Soviets was of the utmost importance to the long term strategic interest of the U.S. Also in the process they turned most of western Europe into economic vassals to the U.S. as demonstrated by the Suez canal and the British sadly being forced to withdraw due to the knife in the back from the U.S. in the form of threatening to withdraw economic assistance.

America was anything but the great and benevolent victor
Interesting how you interpret American Post WW2 behavior in such a negative way. But are so positively chauvinistic and enthusiastic about the British Empire's wonderful empathy and benevolence. You seem to forget that the United States came into existence as a reaction to all this so-called British benevolence.
In fairness, we all want to believe that our culture or system of government is superior to that of all others. However, when you distill it all down to reality, there will always be those in any population, who take advantage of economic opportunity and abuse the people they rule over.
Obe thing that can be said for America's influence over Europe post WW2 is that the Europeans finally stopped slaughtering each other every twenty years in a series of ongoing conflicts. This doesn't necessarily occlude this not happening again in the distant future, either. But at least since 1945, a general peace has existed in Europe. And this is primarily due to the presence of American power.
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Old December 13th, 2012, 01:56 PM   #598

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Where is Tsarist Russia? Don't they deserve a mention, they were pretty major for a few hundred or so years.
I mean the Italian empire is here, but not the Russian empire?
I voted for the Mongol empire, I don't believe they were the most long-lived or influential, but they were shockingly powerful at the height of their time, as well as having a vastly superior military to quite a lot of the world and destroying numerous empires of their own (eg Kievan Rus,etc).
Although, as usual with polls, I am normally quite uncertain about casting a vote in such a black and white question.
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Old December 13th, 2012, 02:06 PM   #599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paragonrex View Post
Why did this thread become about bean counting populations in China?

This thread is about the glory and grandeur of history's great Empires and with all votes counted it would seem, we are back to square one.

The British Empire, holds an indelible spot in the hearts of minds of those the world over. There are some here who will nitpick GDP or population, but lets be honest. In this case the devil is not in the detail. This is a big picture fight and in the end the British, not the French, or the Qing or Mongols or anyone else stands as a shining example of what a sometime violent and brutal political ideology in Empire, could be when run by men of just values and steadfast will. The British Empire was the best of the Empires. Will there be incidents of racism and brutal repression? Yes. Are these incidents far fewer then in any other historical Empire? Most certainly. Empire in all it's imperfection was taken and exemplified and regaled thanks to the British, who united on a small island in Northern Europe and through grit, will power, and righteous self aggrandizement and capitalist zeal brought the world an Empire with no equal and sadly we many never again see it's like.
This type of "nitpicking" appears to be precisely what the post I responded to was doing. For as inexhaustive as GDP and population are, they are far more important in the equation of gauging national power than territorial size, which is what the so called "holding an indelible spot in the hearts of minds of those the world over" relies upon. Other than natural resources, size of territory does not serve as a significant strategic advantage, and in regard to resource, GDP and population both rank higher in coefficient when calculating CNP(comprehensive national power).
And in case you haven't scrutinized my analysis, the British Empire was not only not dominant because of its relatively small GDP, but its military and industrial power as a whole compared to the next few powers was dwarfed by the American hegemon and perhaps even a few others in history.

Last edited by heavenlykaghan; December 13th, 2012 at 02:13 PM.
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Old December 13th, 2012, 05:15 PM   #600

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how is "powerful" being defined? Economic? Militarily? Farthest reaching? All of the above?
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