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Old November 9th, 2011, 03:15 PM   #101

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What are you serious? Canada has a perfect Parliamentary system. Where would it go if we united? Canada's values are socialist and communitarian. Our great social programs would be swamped by the United States. We speak two language and the US only one. Quebec would be too overrun and we would no longer be bilingual.

Really. I would die before I'd let Canada get swallowed up by the United States.
I agree to a certain extent but I think that we should definitely cut on welfare to reduce our debt.
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Old November 9th, 2011, 04:30 PM   #102

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I agree to a certain extent but I think that we should definitely cut on welfare to reduce our debt.
How does national debt affect the common man?
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Old November 9th, 2011, 04:43 PM   #103

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I agree to a certain extent but I think that we should definitely cut on welfare to reduce our debt.
Why not just reverse the Harper corporate tax cuts instead of cutting programs that are needed now more than ever?
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Old November 9th, 2011, 04:48 PM   #104

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Why not just reverse the Harper corporate tax cuts instead of cutting programs that are needed now more than ever?
That, too. However, I'd argue that welfare handouts are too big, well at least in Quebec.


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How does national debt affect the common man?
When it becomes too big like in Europe.
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Old November 9th, 2011, 05:03 PM   #105

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That, too. However, I'd argue that welfare handouts are too big, well at least in Quebec.




When it becomes too big like in Europe.
Really though. I am asking, I have no clue. Economics is not my strong point.
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Old November 9th, 2011, 07:25 PM   #106

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Really though. I am asking, I have no clue. Economics is not my strong point.
I think Lab's saying that we have to keep the debt in check, otherwise we could end up like a chillier version of Greece
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Old November 9th, 2011, 07:45 PM   #107

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I wasn't a conspiracy theorist either, but when Treasury Secretary Paulson blackmailed Congress for $700 billion for unrestricted bank bailouts, I remembered how my former employer, who was a John Birch Society member, use to hit me with all his conservative propaganda about the Trilateral Commission building a one-world government. As an ad agency art director, who produced GE's quarterly reports in the late 1970s, I found it odd that one of the companies my employer complained about was GE and the banks we represented. GE would many years later get the Federal Reserve to back its commercial paper in the worst fiscal mess ever to hit the economy, when it was against Federal Reserve policy to do so.

Then it was revealed that Goldman Sachs invested heavily in For-Profit-Education-Institutions in order to indebt students, make them slaves to the system, and guarantee that their ethics were employer loyal when it cheated its clients.

So now I am a conspiracy theorist.

Corruption, collusion and cronyism is one thing, a plot for a world government is another.
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Old November 9th, 2011, 07:54 PM   #108

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I think Lab's saying that we have to keep the debt in check, otherwise we could end up like a chillier version of Greece
And that we're taxed too much, at least in Quebec we are.

I'd rather we cut on spending and have more money in our pockets. I like certain aspects of socialism like universal healthcare, which we should keep(but improve though, it could be much better) but some are just a waste of money. We're also spending way too much on welfare handouts.
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Old November 9th, 2011, 09:23 PM   #109

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I agree to a certain extent but I think that we should definitely cut on welfare to reduce our debt.
Actually we tried that here in Ontario, under the "Common Sense Revolution".

Our debt exploded, the government came in with a surplus, and when it left our economy was in the crapper and the province owed loads of money. Their social policy was not the only reason of course, but it was part of it.

It's not quite as simple as it seems at the outset. What happens is that you do save a tiny little bit of money initially. But then two things happen. First the homeless rates skyrocket. Every homeless person costs a small fortune in emergency services (police, ambulance, medical, shelters, prisons, etc etc), so right there your savings get wiped out.

The other thing that happens is that they start looking for work. Great, right? Wrong. They are disruptive in the workplace, they cause a drop in productivity, increased employee turnover, increase in quality control problems and costs, etc. They are no fun to have to work with, and it costs businesses money.

Then you also have an explosion of homeless beggars in downtown tourist areas, ruining business outright. Not to mention OCAP was timing its protests for the height of tourist season. For business it just meant you've got more problem employees to deal with and there's a bunch of smelly homeless dudes outside scaring off the customers. Plus either debt or taxes is actually increasing, not decreasing, because of all the additional problems some of which are exorbitantly expensive.

Basically you don't want them to get free Cadillacs or anything but really, its best for some people if you just buy them some Labatts and Kraft dinner so they'll go sit quietly in the corner and not try to help, or make a scene. There's always going to be a certain segment of the population like this, there always has been, right back to Rome and medieval times.
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Old November 10th, 2011, 02:56 AM   #110

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Actually we tried that here in Ontario, under the "Common Sense Revolution".

Our debt exploded, the government came in with a surplus, and when it left our economy was in the crapper and the province owed loads of money. Their social policy was not the only reason of course, but it was part of it.

It's not quite as simple as it seems at the outset. What happens is that you do save a tiny little bit of money initially. But then two things happen. First the homeless rates skyrocket. Every homeless person costs a small fortune in emergency services (police, ambulance, medical, shelters, prisons, etc etc), so right there your savings get wiped out.

The other thing that happens is that they start looking for work. Great, right? Wrong. They are disruptive in the workplace, they cause a drop in productivity, increased employee turnover, increase in quality control problems and costs, etc. They are no fun to have to work with, and it costs businesses money.

Then you also have an explosion of homeless beggars in downtown tourist areas, ruining business outright. Not to mention OCAP was timing its protests for the height of tourist season. For business it just meant you've got more problem employees to deal with and there's a bunch of smelly homeless dudes outside scaring off the customers. Plus either debt or taxes is actually increasing, not decreasing, because of all the additional problems some of which are exorbitantly expensive.

Basically you don't want them to get free Cadillacs or anything but really, its best for some people if you just buy them some Labatts and Kraft dinner so they'll go sit quietly in the corner and not try to help, or make a scene. There's always going to be a certain segment of the population like this, there always has been, right back to Rome and medieval times.
I see.

Which aspect of our spending should we cut in your opinion?
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