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Old February 25th, 2012, 03:41 PM   #1
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Diocletian and Yesbokheamani


Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaporense View Post
No, there were not. Rome was the only great power existing in the know world at the time. In fact, Rome WAS the know world at the time.

That's ancient history 101. Yes, there existed civilizations that Rome did not influence such as Han China or the Olmecs in Central America, however these lands did not exist to the Romans.
wrong.This is what happens when folks do not read other histories and cultures.rome knew china existed etc.LIKE I SAID THERE WERE OTHER GREAT SUPERPOWERS AT THE TIME AND STOP with the foolish non-sense that rome rule the world because it did not.since i am into african culture i will say this.

Kush and Axum were african superpowers.rome tried to conqured kush and fail a few times.you need to clearly understand that.kushite nubians were first rate fighters.maybe you did not know so it may be not your fault,but when new info that is give too you need to swallow the facts.

The beja were great fighters and rome could not beat conquer them.rome tried hard to conquer kush and the beja and failed,so stop with the eurocentric excuses.

That seem to be the new excuse,rome could not take over certain areas because they did not want to,get out here with that non-sense.

Read a african history book FOR ONCE because in this day in age their is no excuses that you did not know.

I JUST GAVE SOME AFRICAN HISTORY LINKS AND LIKE THE TYPICAL ROME WAS EVERYTHING guy you just ignored them.
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Old February 25th, 2012, 04:29 PM   #2

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mace1 View Post
wrong.This is what happens when folks do not read other histories and cultures.rome knew china existed etc.LIKE I SAID THERE WERE OTHER GREAT SUPERPOWERS AT THE TIME AND STOP with the foolish non-sense that rome rule the world because it did not.since i am into african culture i will say this.

Kush and Axum were african superpowers.rome tried to conqured kush and fail a few times.you need to clearly understand that.kushite nubians were first rate fighters.maybe you did not know so it may be not your fault,but when new info that is give too you need to swallow the facts.

The beja were great fighters and rome could not beat conquer them.rome tried hard to conquer kush and the beja and failed,so stop with the eurocentric excuses.

That seem to be the new excuse,rome could not take over certain areas because they did not want to,get out here with that non-sense.

Read a african history book FOR ONCE because in this day in age their is no excuses that you did not know.

I JUST GAVE SOME AFRICAN HISTORY LINKS AND LIKE THE TYPICAL ROME WAS EVERYTHING guy you just ignored them.
I read just of one expedition to Nubia which reached almost nowaday Uganda and the Kandaké of Axum was allied of Romans, this occurred during Nero's reign (54-68 BC).
Moreover your point regarding China is pointless: there were no chance to have China and Roma facing one to each other.
Furthermore, Rome didn't conquer any african land because it was not worth and to difficult.
Rome was not invincible, Roman legionaries couldn't walk through desert without drinking, they were men.
And yes Rome was everything for what it did: Rome created the modern western world, its law,roads,architecture,culture, language, everything is an inheritance of Rome in Europe.
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Old February 25th, 2012, 05:28 PM   #3
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DEAD WRONG,NERO PLAN TO CONQUER BUT REALIZED IT WOULD BE HOPELESS TOO.that was not the only time however.
kushite fought a battle in 253 a.d. and defeated rome in the northern part of lower nubia,they did it again.
THE GREAT KUSHITE PHARAOH King Yesbokheamani defeated Diocletian in 298 a.d.I BET YOU KNEW HEARD OF Yesbokheamani?
That's my point.
Diocletian had to withdrew has forces because it was to much for him.roman historians mention this THIS MAJOR DEFEAT.IT WAS A CLEAR DEFEAT.HE THREW EVERYTHING AT THE MERIOTIC GREAT KUSHITE NUBIAN FORCES AND HE LOST.No excuses,because rome was still really powerful at this time,so was kush.


sorry for changing the subject but this non-sense has to stop.i have ben studing nubia and africa for a long time so no con-games will work on me,i hope you understand.

talk about greece vs rome only and stop talking about rome rule everything and could not be beat non-sense because it's not true.

ROME LOST THREE OR FOUR WARS FIGHTING KUSH.

kush raided the roman empire many times too and rome could not stop them.nubian tactics were first rate and romans knew that.greeks knew too,assyrians.nubians were respected and feared in the ancient world for thier military might and really great civilization.

The kushite nubian empire was large empire in north east and eastern africa.KUSH WAS A SUPERPOWER,so was axum,the beja,china and india and persia.I will say it one for one time and do not let me repeat myself,rome was not the only superpower.stop reading only about european civilizations and expand you mind.This is what happens when you only see movies about rome,greece and nothing about great african civilizationsI BLAME THE SCHOOL SYSYEMS IN THE WEST BECAUSE IN AFRICA KUSH IS WELL KNOWN.




For those details you will have to get the african history books i will mention below.


I am not here to debate to to correct oudated or just outright lies.




The portrayal of the Submissive African

As noted here before, some time ca. 8th century BC, the Kushitic-manned forces were dispatched into the Levant to fight against Assyrian forces. It was during such campaigns that the Nile Valley under Kushitic leadership came to the aid of ancient Israelite peoples, in the face of harassments from the likes of Assyrians [see: The Rescue of Jerusalem: The Alliance Between Hebrews and Africans in 701 B.C., by Henry T. Aubin (April 1, 2003)].

Kushites: a tough nut to crack?

Under the Roman sphere of influence in Egypt, shortly after Augustus took control in ca. 31 B, Kush undertook an offensive policy towards Egypt, which no doubt brought it head to head with the Romans. Though on the continent, and knowing fully well that the Romans were planning to expand their control beyond Egypt and to their territory, the Kushite state decided to take matters into its hand, and preemptively attack territories between them and the then Dynastic Egypt/Kemetian borders, and well into the area of Aswan against a non-African opponent, where they would attack the Roman legionaries stationed there. The Romans would find out just how tough an adversary the Kushites were in the course of their conflict, so much so, that they would eventually cede Qasr Ibrim [and areas north of Qasr Ibrim in the southern portion of the "Thiry-Mile Strip"] to the Kushites ca. 22BC , and sign a peace treaty with the latter in the Island of Samos ca. 21 BC [and follows an earlier attempt at peace negotiations ca. 24 BC], which would put it in writing that the Romans would stay clear of the said regions and absolve the Kusthite state of any responsibility of paying tribute to Rome...


This head was once part of a statue of the emperor Augustus (ruled 27 BC-AD 14). It was taken during a Kushite raid on Roman-occupied Egypt as a symbol of their defiance of Roman might. It was buried in front of the steps of a Kushite temple of Victory at Meroe in Upper Nubia and was probably placed there so as to be permanently underneath the feet of its captors. Height: 447 mm. - Courtesy the British Museum
Click the image to open in full size.



Kentake Amanirenas of Kush (flourished c.24 BC)
Defender of the Sudanese Kingdom of Kush against Roman aggression
The Roman conquest of Egypt in 30 BC brought a new challenge to the Kingdom of Kush, to the south. Augustus Caesar, the Roman emperor, threatened an invasion, following his Egyptian campaign. According to Strabo, a famous geographer, sometime between 29 and 24 BC the conflict with Kush began. Kentake (i.e. Queen-Mother) Amanirenas, the Kushite ruler, gave the order to march into Egypt and attack the invaders. Akindad led the campaigns against the Roman armies of Augustus. The Kushites sacked Aswan with an army of 30,000 men and they destroyed the statues of Caesar in Elephantine. The Romans, under Petronius, counterattacked. Though described as a strong and fortified city, they captured Qasr Ibrim in 23 BC after their first assault. The Romans invaded as far as Napata and sacked it, though Amanirenas evaded their clutches. Petronius returned to Alexandria with prisoners and booty leaving behind a garrison in Lower Nubia. Amenirenas ordered her armies to march a second time with the aim of seizing the Roman garrison. This time, however, a standoff with Petronius was reached without fighting. The Roman army retired to Egypt and withdrew their fort declaring Pax Romana (peace). In fact, the full extent of the Roman humiliation has yet to be disclosed since the relevant Kushite account of the affair has yet to be published. The Kushite account of this encounter, written in the Meroďtic script, cannot as yet be fully understood.






Between 28-21 B.C.E., his administrators were confronted with disturbances in the Arabian peninsula directly across the Red Sea from Egypt. Wishing to address the situation as expeditiously as possible, the Romans decided to dispatch legions already stationed in Egypt to the troubled area. Once the legions had departed, the Nubians of Lower Egypt [probably a typo; "Nubia" might be what the author had in mind] appear to have revolted and stormed the frontier at Aswan, sacking the area and toppling official monuments, including recently erected statues of Augustus himself. The head of one of these bronze images of Augustus was severed from its body and carried off to Meroe, where it was intentionally buried beneath the threshold of one of the palaces so that each time the Meroites entered and exited, they would be symbolically trampling the head of their foe underfoot.

The Classical authors credit a Candake as the leader of the Meroites. As one has seen earlier, they had mistaken the title, kdke, for the personal name of the female ruler of kingdom of Meroe. Her identity remains unknown, although there are attempts to identify her with the Queen Mother Amanirenas, who is suggested to have ruled during this period of time. She apparently shared power with the pqr, Akinidad. If one's reading of the monuments is correct, Akinidad continued to rule after her demise with another kdke, Amanishakheto by name. Akinidad exercised personal control over both Upper and Lower Nubia, as his titles attest. He is to date the only Meroite known to have held the office of pqr and pesato, "viceroy [of Lower Nubia]," simultaneously.


In order to address this insurrection, the Romans dispatched new legions to the region in anticipation of a military confrontation and began their march into Lower Nubia. The Meroites, in an attempt to meet the Roman challenge, mustered their own forces and marched north. Both forces marched into the vicinity of Qasr Ibrim (Primis). A pitched battle was avoided when representatives from both sides agreed to discuss the matter. The Meroites indicated that their revolt against Rome was prompted by certain grievances that had not been remedied. The Roman geographer, Strabo, writing in Greek shortly after the actual events, is decidedly prejudiced in his account, incredulously posing a question to the Meroites inquiring as to their reason for not bringing their concerns to the emperor Augustus. As if to portray the Meroites as individuals ignorant of current affairs, Strabo records their reply by stating that the Meroites did not know where to find Augustus. In point of fact, the Meroites were correct because Augustus himself had been on the move as a result of his inspection tour of the East.


It was then resolved that an embassy of the Meroites would be granted safe conduct to the Greek island of Samos, where Augustus was temporarily headquartered. This was perhaps the first recorded instance in the entire history of Africa when diplomats representing a Black African ruler independent of Egypt traveled to Europe to effect a diplomatic resolution. The Meroites and Romans signed a peace treaty that not only remitted their tax liability to Rome, but also established the Dodekaschoinos as a buffer zone. In order to gain the favor of the inhabitants of this region, Augustus directed his administrators to collaborate with the priesthoods of the region in the erection of a temple at Dendur. In its relief and inscriptions, Augustus himself appears as the chief celebrant of the local deities but there pays particular homage to two youths [brothers, Pahor and Pedese, who are believed to have been sons of a local Nubian elite ruler], whose deaths had elevated them to the status of divine intercessors. They are enrolled among the local deities in this temple and are the recipients of a cult. The temple of Dendur also served as their cenotaph. - Robert Steven Bianchi, Daily Life of Nubians, 2004.


Here's another look at the matter, by an unnamed author who seems to have at least used the above author as one of his/her references, though unstated [paying attention to the highlighted pieces immediately above and below]...

The war then entered an indecisive phase of stalemate, where massive Roman attacks into Kushite territory, and counterattacks by the Kushites northward into Roman held territory went back and forth. The Roman established forts at Qasr Ibrim, and the Kushites raided Roman garrisons in Egypt. Finally in 24 BC, in the fifth year the exasperating struggle, a massive Roman invasion pushed a large Kushite force southward to the city of Dakka. The fight was brutal and Strabo mentions that the Candace's son, the paqar [prince] Akinidad, was killed during this campaign. The ferocity and battering at Dakka caused the two sides to start again to negotiate peace. However, the negotiations failed, and the Romans then pushed their forces deeper into Kushite territory as far as Sara.

Sara proved to be the turning point of the war. The Kushites counterattacked and retook Sara, but didn’t stop there. They pushed the Romans back north and out of the encampments elsewhere. The Kushites overrun the Roman garrisons at Qasr Ibrim, Dakka, Pselchis, and other places in remorseless and continuous assaults. It seems that the Kushites had obtained reinforcement from the African interior, and that until that time they had not been able to mobilize their troops, and had been fighting a defensive war. After the death of Akinidad, and the Capture of Sara, the Kushite armies went on the attack.

As the forward units of the Kushite army, now numbering thousands of men, prepared to retake the largest and last major Roman garrison, Premnis, the Roman governor Gaius Petronius arrived from Alexandria with fresh Roman reinforcements, and “entering the fortress before the approach of the enemy, secured the place by many expedients”, according to one classical writer. But on realising that he could not hold Premnis any longer, Petronius sued for peace and sent envoys to the Candace to start negotiations.

The Kushite ambassadors at Premnis, during the negotiations with Petronius apparently told him in jest that they did not know who Caesar was, nor where to find him. Several of the Kushite officials could speak Latin, Aramaic, Greek and other languages, as some of the Kushite inscriptions were in Greek. Prior to this war and after, Kushites always maintained ambassadors in state abroad, and many foreigners also lived in Kushite cities, so that they would have had no problem communicating their intentions to Petronius. Petronius appointed persons to conduct the Kushite envoys to meet Caesar Augustus. Caesar received the Kushite envoys at a place on the island of Samos.

An amazing record exists in tradition and in stone, of the envoys discussions with Caesar. One of the Kushite envoys gallantly presented Caesar with a beautiful Kushite “fasces” [a bundle] of golden arrows and said the following words: “This gift is from the Candace. If you want peace, this is a token of her warmth and friendship. If you want war, keep the arrows because you are going to need them.” According to the classical writers, the Kushite ambassadors obtained all that they desired, and Caesar even remitted the tribute which he had imposed. Caesar capitulated and renounced the tribute exacted from the Kushites in Egypt, soften the Roman burden on Egyptians, and a border was demarcated between Roman Empire and the Empire of Kush.






quote-


Amanirenas, Queen of Kush

(late first century, B.C.E.)

Like Zenobia, this queen of Kush took advantage of unrest that distracted Roman troops from her realm, the kingdom of Meroe. The Emperor Augustus had recently attempted to tax the *beep* and Amanirenas, one in a long line of ruling *beep* women, took offense. With her son Akinidad, she attacked a Roman fort at Aswan, left the few survivors a warning message about unwarranted taxes, and returned to Meroe with the bronze head of a statue of Augustus. This they buried under the threshold of Amanirenas' palace. When Augustus mounted the expected retaliation, under the general Petronius, the Romans were at first successful, but Amanirenas herself took the field against them and forced them to the bargaining table. She sent her ambassadors to the island of Samos, where they negotiated return of all conquered lands and the remission of the controversial tax. Amanirenas' title, Kandake, is thought to be the origin of the common woman's name Candace.

note-rome never conqured up to meroe,there is even a debate if they ever made it to napata,but in the end rome was forced to give back the lands they conqured anyway.


______________
I love to see a few movies about nubia kicking roman butt.The movie if every made will show that there were other superpowers in the world not just in asia but in africa and it will show that rome did not rule the world just like the greeks did not ruled the world.OTHER FOLKS VIEW THEMSELVES HAS THE KNOWN WORLD OR RULES OF THE WORLD TOO. The romans ruled thier world,not the african world and asia world.

quote-
Imagine it: you're a foot soldier in the Roman army that for several years has been occupying the border region between Egypt and Kush, a wealthy "king"-dom extending southward up the Nile where, it is reputed, the rulers are often queens. Back home across the Mediterranean, women have very little power, which is, you think, as it should be. After all, didn't Antony's dalliance with a certain Egyptian queen just a few years back lead to his ouster by Augustus? Suddenly, the call to arms. As you take up your position against the enemy, you are surprised to note that a formidable-looking woman is leading the charge against you....
She was fierce, she was black, and she prevailed. Her army of thirty thousand not only beat the Romans, it took captives and plunder. she eventually won from Caesar Augustus a treaty that ensured peace between her nation and his and, incredibly, secured the return of tributes previously levied by Rome against Kush. Not bad soldiering for a "one-eyed virago," as the Romans called her. Among the treasures of Kush is a statue of Caesar likely taken in battle by this queen. In his account of the battle, Strabo refers to her as Candace, which is somewhat misleading because there were at least five queens called Candace (or Kandace, pronounced can-DAH-say), a term meaning Queen Mother or Queen Regent. In any case, while her exact identity is still somewhat in doubt, the warring Candace with one eye so impressed Strabo, Pliny, and others that the term itself became known outside Africa.



here is more better detail update info



FROM ENDEING STEROTYPES


Government of Napatan-Meroitic:
Although the agrarian society helped produce the great wealth, trade
brought in the greatest revenue. Urban centers expanded and
multiplied, acting as markets between the African hinterland, Egypt,
the Mediterranean, and regional trading communities in Nubia. Nubian
ports on the Red Sea also traded with Arabia, India and China. A
middle class of skilled craftsmen, traders, l workers, weavers,
producing nations of the ancient world.

Under King Ergamenes Meroe became, according to the well-known Harvard
classicist Frank Snowden, a Nubian Alexandria. Perhaps the foremost
expert on Nubia, Professor William Adams, concurred: "Ptolemaic Egypt
and Meroitic Kush were provincial expressions of a world
civilization."

Frank Snowden noted: "The renaissance of temple building under
Ptolemaic and Roman Egypt was paralleled by Nubia."


Military
Napatan-Meroitc armies used bows, swords, spears, and leather body
armor--some soldiers likely used l armory. Nubians also utilized
chariots, horses, and elephants--ancient tanks on the battlefield.
Coins from ancient Rome commemorated the Nubian elephant units by
depicting an elephant on one side and the head of a black man on the
other.


Rome gained control of part of Lower Nubia in the first century. Rome
wanted to make Nubia a vassal state, but in 23BC Nubia attacked Rome
with 30,000 soldiers and pushed the Romans back to the Southern border
of Egypt. Rome quickly recognized Meroe-Nubian independence. Friendly
relations soon followed. The Blemmyes, a troublesome clan on the
outskirts of Nubia, were such excellent soldiers they defeated
Roman-Egypt troops and for, "a considerable period," and ruled Upper
Egypt to the present day city of Tol. Rome was forced to pay off the
Nobades clan and the Blemmyes for 200 years so that they wouldn't
attack Egypt.

Nubia and Rome worked together in Lower Nubia to protect the region's
trade, sharing many administrative duties. This gave Nubia a window
into Roman-Egyptian intentions. Knowing that Rome would attempt to
regain Lower Nubia if they had the chance, Nubia sent many farmers to
populate the area, making it much denser, therefore more difficult for
Rome to subdue.


Ancient Nubia
One of the world's most powerful ancient kingdoms; it halted the Roman, Greek, Assyrian, and Persian conquerors- it even ruled over Egypt for a time. It built pyramids, palaces, and other great architectural feats. It also developed its own written language.



from stanley burstein a greek scholar who has wriiten a few books about nubia and axum

quote-
A new era of greatness and prosperity for meroe with Ergamenes's rebellion.
For more then 500 years,Ergamenes' successors ruled most of the upper nile and bravely defeated all macedonian and roman atteempts tp conquer the area..
As a result,meroe kept control of important trade routes that brought valuable african products-gold,ivory,and ebony as well manufactured goods of iron,
silver,and bronze-to egypt in exchange for greek luxury goods.








Topic: Armies of Ancient Africa


EgyptSearch Forums: Armies of Ancient Africa




Here some books to need to update yourself.


______________________________________________-

The kingdom of Kush: handbook of the Napatan-Meriotic civilization
László Török - 1997 - History - 589 pages
This handbook presents a comprehensive survey of the textual archaeological and art historical evidence for this Middle Nile Region - Kingdom of Kush. Basing itself upon the evidence and scholarly literature, this work discusses the emergence of the native state of Kush (after the Pharaonic domination in the 11th century BC), the rule of the Kings of Kush in Egpyt (c. 760-656 BC) and the intellectual foundations and political history of the Kingdom in the Napatan (7th and 3rd centuries BC) and Meroitic (3rd century BC - 4th century) periods.
Author: Laszlo Torok





The Kingdom of Kush: The Napatan and Meroitic Empires
Derek A. Welsby - 1998 - 240 pages




This book talks abou the battle/wars nubia had with rome.GET IT for yourself.I WILL quote some stuff from it below.
Ancient Nubia:

Egypt's rival in Africa

University Museum, University of Pennsylvania, 1993 - History - 178 pages
An informative introduction to the history and culture of ancient Nubia from the Bronze Age through the Christian period. The author places Nubia in its historical and cultural context as an important African civilization. This book accompanied a traveling exhibit of the same name and includes black-and-white photographs of more than 300 objects as well as a selection of color photographs. Detailed line drawings of wall paintings, cemeteries, town plans, and architectural reconstructions help reveal the complexity of Nubian society.

David O'Connor
Click the image to open in full size.




QUOTE-
FINALLY,the military situation in akin also indicates how closely it was integrated with and dependent on the royal government as a whole.
akin was meroe's front line defense against roman egypt,should the latter become hostile as it had been in the past; and,in addition,both akin and dodekaschoenos were threatened by a powerful nomadic kingdom,
that of the blemmyes,located in the deserts to the east.


note- i have skip some stuff because it's lot,i will get more to the point.
quote-
Evdently,akin's security from attack depended upon the kingdom as whole.a meroitic intelligence srvice or early warning system extended up into roman nubia and throughout the eastern desert,and the meroitic state was very capable of rapidly moving troops on a large scale to a threatened area.
In 23 B.C.,it shou;d be remembered,a large meroitic army,coming from the south of lower nubia and reputedly 30,000 strong,took the roman
occupiers of the region(and within southernmost egypt itself)completely by surprise.Up to that point,rome had planned on lower nubia being ruled by a vassal king,and the meroitic state becoming a roman cliient-kingdom;she retaliated vigorously for the meroitic attack,but gave up these ideas and reconized meroitic independence,which was based on meroitic admininstrative capability and military strength.


This one you need to read this most.it GIVES THE MOST DETAILED INFO.The book has name rome in it,but it's really a book about nubia and the beja and thier relationship with rome.wars battles trade etc.

Robert B. Jackson, "At Empire's Edge: Exploring Rome's Egyptian Frontier"
When Egypt became a province of the Roman Empire in 30 B.C. after the deaths of Antony and Cleopatra, its vast and mysterious frontier lands had an important impact on the commerce, politics, and culture of the empire. This engrossing book-part history and part gazetteer-focuses on Rome's Egyptian frontier, describing the ancient fortresses, temples, settlements, quarries, and aqueducts scattered throughout the region and conveying a vivid sense of what life was like for its inhabitants. Robert B. Jackson has journeyed, by jeep and on foot, to virtually every known Roman site in the area, from Siwa Oasis, forty-five kilometers from the modern Libyan border, to the Sudan. Drawing on both archaeological and historical information, he discusses these sites, explaining how Rome extracted exotic stone and precious metals from the mountains of the Eastern Desert, channeled the wealth of India and East Africa through the desert via ports on the Red Sea, constructed and manned fortresses in the distant oases of the Western Desert, and facilitated the expansion of agricultural communities in the desert that eventually experienced the earliest large-scale conversions to Christianity in Egypt. Elegantly written and illustrated with many handsome photographs, the book will be a treasured resource for archaeologists, classicists, and travelers to the region.
Click the image to open in full size.


you could get the book here
At Empire's Edge: Exploring Rome's Egyptian Frontier



You get it at amazon

At Empire's Edge: Exploring Rome's Egyptian Frontier




VIDEO ABOUT ANCIENT NUBIA YOU NEED TO SEE.

watch the whole thing and you will see the first war that rome lost when fighting the great kushite nubian empire.


EgyptSearch Forums: Nubia the forgotten kingdom

Last edited by mace1; February 25th, 2012 at 06:13 PM.
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Old February 25th, 2012, 06:11 PM   #4
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read the whole thing here.
parts of this info is above but more info is here.read everything here as well.


The portrayal of the Submissive African




Between 28-21 B.C.E., his administrators were confronted with disturbances in the Arabian peninsula directly across the Red Sea from Egypt. Wishing to address the situation as expeditiously as possible, the Romans decided to dispatch legions already stationed in Egypt to the troubled area. Once the legions had departed, the Nubians of Lower Egypt [probably a typo; "Nubia" might be what the author had in mind] appear to have revolted and stormed the frontier at Aswan, sacking the area and toppling official monuments, including recently erected statues of Augustus himself. The head of one of these bronze images of Augustus was severed from its body and carried off to Meroe, where it was intentionally buried beneath the threshold of one of the palaces so that each time the Meroites entered and exited, they would be symbolically trampling the head of their foe underfoot.

The Classical authors credit a Candake as the leader of the Meroites. As one has seen earlier, they had mistaken the title, kdke, for the personal name of the female ruler of kingdom of Meroe. Her identity remains unknown, although there are attempts to identify her with the Queen Mother Amanirenas, who is suggested to have ruled during this period of time. She apparently shared power with the pqr, Akinidad. If one's reading of the monuments is correct, Akinidad continued to rule after her demise with another kdke, Amanishakheto by name. Akinidad exercised personal control over both Upper and Lower Nubia, as his titles attest. He is to date the only Meroite known to have held the office of pqr and pesato, "viceroy [of Lower Nubia]," simultaneously.


In order to address this insurrection, the Romans dispatched new legions to the region in anticipation of a military confrontation and began their march into Lower Nubia. The Meroites, in an attempt to meet the Roman challenge, mustered their own forces and marched north. Both forces marched into the vicinity of Qasr Ibrim (Primis). A pitched battle was avoided when representatives from both sides agreed to discuss the matter. The Meroites indicated that their revolt against Rome was prompted by certain grievances that had not been remedied. The Roman geographer, Strabo, writing in Greek shortly after the actual events, is decidedly prejudiced in his account, incredulously posing a question to the Meroites inquiring as to their reason for not bringing their concerns to the emperor Augustus. As if to portray the Meroites as individuals ignorant of current affairs, Strabo records their reply by stating that the Meroites did not know where to find Augustus. In point of fact, the Meroites were correct because Augustus himself had been on the move as a result of his inspection tour of the East.


It was then resolved that an embassy of the Meroites would be granted safe conduct to the Greek island of Samos, where Augustus was temporarily headquartered. This was perhaps the first recorded instance in the entire history of Africa when diplomats representing a Black African ruler independent of Egypt traveled to Europe to effect a diplomatic resolution. The Meroites and Romans signed a peace treaty that not only remitted their tax liability to Rome, but also established the Dodekaschoinos as a buffer zone. In order to gain the favor of the inhabitants of this region, Augustus directed his administrators to collaborate with the priesthoods of the region in the erection of a temple at Dendur. In its relief and inscriptions, Augustus himself appears as the chief celebrant of the local deities but there pays particular homage to two youths [brothers, Pahor and Pedese, who are believed to have been sons of a local Nubian elite ruler], whose deaths had elevated them to the status of divine intercessors. They are enrolled among the local deities in this temple and are the recipients of a cult. The temple of Dendur also served as their cenotaph. - Robert Steven Bianchi, Daily Life of Nubians, 2004.


Here's another look at the matter, by an unnamed author who seems to have at least used the above author as one of his/her references, though unstated [paying attention to the highlighted pieces immediately above and below]...

The war then entered an indecisive phase of stalemate, where massive Roman attacks into Kushite territory, and counterattacks by the Kushites northward into Roman held territory went back and forth. The Roman established forts at Qasr Ibrim, and the Kushites raided Roman garrisons in Egypt. Finally in 24 BC, in the fifth year the exasperating struggle, a massive Roman invasion pushed a large Kushite force southward to the city of Dakka. The fight was brutal and Strabo mentions that the Candace's son, the paqar [prince] Akinidad, was killed during this campaign. The ferocity and battering at Dakka caused the two sides to start again to negotiate peace. However, the negotiations failed, and the Romans then pushed their forces deeper into Kushite territory as far as Sara.

Sara proved to be the turning point of the war. The Kushites counterattacked and retook Sara, but didn’t stop there. They pushed the Romans back north and out of the encampments elsewhere. The Kushites overrun the Roman garrisons at Qasr Ibrim, Dakka, Pselchis, and other places in remorseless and continuous assaults. It seems that the Kushites had obtained reinforcement from the African interior, and that until that time they had not been able to mobilize their troops, and had been fighting a defensive war. After the death of Akinidad, and the Capture of Sara, the Kushite armies went on the attack.

As the forward units of the Kushite army, now numbering thousands of men, prepared to retake the largest and last major Roman garrison, Premnis, the Roman governor Gaius Petronius arrived from Alexandria with fresh Roman reinforcements, and “entering the fortress before the approach of the enemy, secured the place by many expedients”, according to one classical writer. But on realising that he could not hold Premnis any longer, Petronius sued for peace and sent envoys to the Candace to start negotiations.

The Kushite ambassadors at Premnis, during the negotiations with Petronius apparently told him in jest that they did not know who Caesar was, nor where to find him. Several of the Kushite officials could speak Latin, Aramaic, Greek and other languages, as some of the Kushite inscriptions were in Greek. Prior to this war and after, Kushites always maintained ambassadors in state abroad, and many foreigners also lived in Kushite cities, so that they would have had no problem communicating their intentions to Petronius. Petronius appointed persons to conduct the Kushite envoys to meet Caesar Augustus. Caesar received the Kushite envoys at a place on the island of Samos.

An amazing record exists in tradition and in stone, of the envoys discussions with Caesar. One of the Kushite envoys gallantly presented Caesar with a beautiful Kushite “fasces” [a bundle] of golden arrows and said the following words: “This gift is from the Candace. If you want peace, this is a token of her warmth and friendship. If you want war, keep the arrows because you are going to need them.” According to the classical writers, the Kushite ambassadors obtained all that they desired, and Caesar even remitted the tribute which he had imposed. Caesar capitulated and renounced the tribute exacted from the Kushites in Egypt, soften the Roman burden on Egyptians, and a border was demarcated between Roman Empire and the Empire of Kush.




It was then resolved that an embassy of the Meroites would be granted safe conduct to the Greek island of Samos, where Augustus was temporarily headquartered. This was perhaps the first recorded instance in the entire history of Africa when diplomats representing a Black African ruler independent of Egypt traveled to Europe to effect a diplomatic resolution. The Meroites and Romans signed a peace treaty that not only remitted their tax liability to Rome, but also established the Dodekaschoinos as a buffer zone. In order to gain the favor of the inhabitants of this region, Augustus directed his administrators to collaborate with the priesthoods of the region in the erection of a temple at Dendur. In its relief and inscriptions, Augustus himself appears as the chief celebrant of the local deities but there pays particular homage to two youths [brothers, Pahor and Pedese, who are believed to have been sons of a local Nubian elite ruler], whose deaths had elevated them to the status of divine intercessors. They are enrolled among the local deities in this temple and are the recipients of a cult. The temple of Dendur also served as their cenotaph.

To mark the end of the war, Candace Amanirena had monuments erected to honour the prince Akinidad and others who had served as commanders. The toll of the war on her personally had been great. Amanirena had also lost her consort-husband Teriteqas [also written Teriteqa or Teritega] during the war. Her elder son Kharapkhael, Akinidad’s elder “bother” had died before the war broke out. Amanirena probably had daughters as well, but they were not in the direct line of succession. Another member of the royal house, Princess Amanishakhete, was the designated crown princess, and as tradition required, she was “adopted” by Amanirena. However, Amanishakhete may have been a niece to Amanirena, or the grand niece of a past Candace. It is also possible that Amanishakhete was unrelated to the royal house and was a commoner who had been appointed and trained by the priesthood in preparation for her to become Candace.


Amanirena died in 10 BC, and was succeeded by Candace Amanishakhete. Although Amanishakhete’s rein was troubled by mutinies generated by the war, she nonetheless was able to repair most of the damage the Romans had caused, and to build new temples and forts. Her rein was opulent and spectacular, although rather short. It lasted only ten years. Amanishakhete was succeeded by the Candace Amanitore.



Had the Kushites destroyed the Roman army at Premnis it is probable that the Roman occupation of Egypt would have collapsed immediately, and shortly after it the Roman Empire itself would have ceased to exist. The roman troops massed in Egypt were the elite units of the empire, and controlled the most precious estate of the empire, Egypt. The war with Kush forced a number of decisions on the Romans, most notably the creation of a standing army to contain the Kushites, and also had the unfortunate effect of ending the Roman republic. It was so valuable for Rome, that Augustus Caesar refused any ranking Roman from travelling to Egypt without his personal permission.

The most noteworthy effect of the war on Roman civilization was all of the grandeur we associate with Rome materialized and was made possible by the peace achieved at Samos. At the time of Augustus, Rome looked like a dusty village in comparison to any of the cities in Egypt or Kush. After the reign of August, Rome had become wealthy from access to Egyptian grain and Kushite gold, ivory and other products.

Given Augustus Caesar’s response to the Candace, and the record left by classical writers and observers such as Josephus, Petronius {her enemy], Strabo, Deo Cassius and others, even though biased for the most part, it is obvious that Augustus believed that the Kushites were quite capable of overruning and collapsing the Roman Empire. It is also clear that the Kushites were genuinely uninterested in going to war with anyone, and were merely defending themselves regardless of their capacity to defeat the Romans.


The effects on Kush were less benign. The Romans never really meant the end the war, and so continued to undermine Kush by fomenting rebellion in territories belonging to the Kushites. They stationed the Third Augustan Legion in Algeria, and used it to funnel funds to the Garamante, the Wangara, the Beja, and others in order to cause them to revolt against the Candaces. However, the Kushite Empire lasted another 400 years.

Much of what we consider African culture is a legacy of the Kushites under the Candaces. Take for example the fact that today Africans languages are classified under four language groups, all of which derive from an extinct language called Proto-Kordofanian, which is believed to have originated in southern Sudan, coincidentally the centre of the Kushite Empire. From Senegal to Ethiopia, from Egypt to South Africa, the common ties that bind Africans together are essentially components of a culture that dates back to the days of the Kushite Empire. - Courtesy AUFwebpage










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A number of Meroitic queens called Ka'andakes (Candaces) ruled Nubia-Kush just before the birth of Christ. Candace Amanirenas and her son Prince Akinidad along with the Meroitic Army kept the Romans out of Nubia-Kush. In this scene, they are witnessing the burning of the Roman Garrison in Aswan. Meroitic-Kush never became part of the Roman empire. The formidable leader greatly impressed classical writers, who mistook the royal title of Candace for a personal name. - Reference and photo from Splendors of the Past: Lost Cities of the Ancient World, National Geographic Society, 1981, page 171-173

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Old February 25th, 2012, 06:28 PM   #5
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The Aksumite occupation in Southern Arabia provides yet another example of African offensive outside of the mainland of the continent...

At the kingdom's height, its rulers held sway over the Red Sea coast from Sawakin in present-day Sudan in the north to Berbera in present-day Somalia in the south, and inland as far as the Nile Valley in modern Sudan. On the Arabian side of the Red Sea, the Aksumite rulers at times controlled the coast and much of the interior of modern Yemen. During the sixth and seventh centuries, the Aksumite state lost its possessions in southwest Arabia and much of its Red Sea coastline and gradually shrank to its core area, with the political center of the state shifting farther and farther southward.

Inscriptions from Aksum and elsewhere date from as early as the end of the second century A.D. and reveal an Aksumite state that already had expanded at the expense of neighboring peoples. The Greek inscriptions of King Zoskales (who ruled at the end of the second century A.D.) claim that he conquered the lands to the south and southwest of what is now Tigray and controlled the Red Sea coast from Sawakin south to the present-day Djibouti and Berbera areas. The Aksumite state controlled parts of Southwest Arabia as well during this time, and subsequent Aksumite rulers continually involved themselves in the political and military affairs of Southwest Arabia, especially in what is now Yemen. Much of the impetus for foreign conquest lay in the desire to control the maritime trade between the Roman Empire and India and adjoining lands. Indeed, King Zoskales is mentioned by name in the Periplus of the Erythrean Sea (the Latin term for the Red Sea is Mare Erythreum), a Greek shipping guide of the first to third centuries A.D., as promoting commerce with Rome, Arabia, and India. Among the African commodities that the Aksumites exported were gold, rhinoceros horn, ivory, incense, and obsidian; in return, they imported cloth, glass, iron, olive oil, and wine...

At the kingdom's height, its rulers held sway over the Red Sea coast from Sawakin in present-day Sudan in the north to Berbera in present-day Somalia in the south, and inland as far as the Nile Valley in modern Sudan. On the Arabian side of the Red Sea, the Aksumite rulers at times controlled the coast and much of the interior of modern Yemen. During the sixth and seventh centuries, the Aksumite state lost its possessions in southwest Arabia and much of its Red Sea coastline and gradually shrank to its core area, with the political center of the state shifting farther and farther southward.

Inscriptions from Aksum and elsewhere date from as early as the end of the second century A.D. and reveal an Aksumite state that already had expanded at the expense of neighboring peoples. The Greek inscriptions of King Zoskales (who ruled at the end of the second century A.D.) claim that he conquered the lands to the south and southwest of what is now Tigray and controlled the Red Sea coast from Sawakin south to the present-day Djibouti and Berbera areas. The Aksumite state controlled parts of Southwest Arabia as well during this time, and subsequent Aksumite rulers continually involved themselves in the political and military affairs of Southwest Arabia, especially in what is now Yemen. Much of the impetus for foreign conquest lay in the desire to control the maritime trade between the Roman Empire and India and adjoining lands. Indeed, King Zoskales is mentioned by name in the Periplus of the Erythrean Sea (the Latin term for the Red Sea is Mare Erythreum), a Greek shipping guide of the first to third centuries A.D., as promoting commerce with Rome, Arabia, and India. Among the African commodities that the Aksumites exported were gold, rhinoceros horn, ivory, incense, and obsidian; in return, they imported cloth, glass, iron, olive oil, and wine...




Blemmyes
The Blemmyes (Latin Blemmyae) were a nomadic Nubian tribe described in Roman histories of the later empire. From the late third century on, along with another tribe, the Nobadae, they repeatedly fought the Romans. They were said to live in Africa, in Nubia, Kush, or Ethiopia, generally south of Egypt.

In antiquity
The Greek geographer Strabo describes the Blemmyes as a peaceful people living in the East Desert near Meroe.
Their cultural and military power started to enlarge to such a level that in 197 Pescennius Niger asked a Blemmye king of Thebas to help him in the battle against the Roman Emperor Septimius Severus. In 250 the Roman Emperor Decius took a lot of effort to win over an invasion army of Blemmyes. A few years later, in 253, they attacked Lower Aegyptus (Thebais) again but were quickly defeated. In 265 they were defeated again by the Roman Prefect Firmus who later in 273 would rebel against the Empire and the Queen of Palmyra Zenobia with the help of the Blemmyes themselves. The Roman general Probus took sometime to defeat the usurper and his allies but couldn't prevent the occupation of Thebais by the Blemmyes. That meant another war and the almost entire destruction of the Blemmyes army (279-280).

In the reign of Diocletian the province of Lower Aegyptus (Thebais) was again occupied by the Blemmyes. In 298, Diocletian made peace with the Nobatae and Blemmyes tribes, agreeing that Rome move its borders north to Philae (South Egypt, south of Aswan) and pay the two tribes an annual gold stipend

The Blemmyes occupied a considerable region in current day Sudan. There were some important cities like Faras, Kalabsha, Balana and Aniba, and they were all fortified with walls and towers of a mixture of Egyptian, Helenic, Roman and Nubic elements.

Their culture had also the influence of the Meroitic culture, and so, Blemmyes religion was centered in the temples of Kalabsha and Philae. The former being a huge masterpiece of Nubian architecture, where a solar lion like divinity named Mandulis was worshiped. Philae was a place of mass pilgrimage with temples for Isis, Mandulis and Anhur, and where the Roman Emperors Augustus and Trajan made many contributions with new temples, plazas and monumental works.

_____________________


With the death of Cleopatra in 30 BC, Egypt became part of the Roman Empire. The Roman attitude toward the nomads was very different from that of the Greeks: Repulsed by their wild-haired appearance, the Romans regarded them as scarcely more than another kind of desert beast, and treated them accordingly. The nomads began raiding Roman territory and trade routes. By the latter half of the third century of our era, the Blemmyes had united sufficiently to present Rome with a challenge. According to the fifth-century Palestinian historian Eusebius of Caesarea, the Blemmyes overran the Nile Valley in 268, from Syene (Aswan) all the way to Ptolemais, near modern Sohag, and it took the Romans years of bitter campaigning to drive them back into the desert.

From the third to the fifth centuries the Blemmyes continued to threaten Roman hegemony in the region. In his De Bello Persico, the sixth-century Byzantine historian Procopius recorded that in 284, Emperor Diocletian, faced with continuous Blemmyan conflict, formally relinquished to the Blemmyes jointly with the Nobadae, their rivals, a 250-kilometer (155 mi) stretch of the Nile known as the Dodekaschoinus, which stretched from Syene south to near the present Egyptian Sudanese border. In addition, Diocletian arranged to pay annual tribute to the Blemmyes, and he allowed them access to their favored shrine of Isis at Philae (near modern Aswan), as well as the right to have their own priests in residence there.
Although Diocletian's appeasement did not end Blemmyan raids, the Blemmyes did for a time respect the border at Syene. But by the latter half of the fourth century the Blemmyes were de facto rulers of the Nile Valley far beyond that point. In a contemporary letter, Blemmyan ruler Kharachen assured his administrators at Tanare (some 240 kilometers, or 150 miles, north of Syene, near modern Luxor), "If the Romans make difficulties and do not pay the ordinary tribute, neither the phylarch nor the hypotyrannos [Blemmyan authorities—the Blemmyan language of state was Greek] will prevent you from compelling the Romans to pay it." Interestingly, although the Blemmyes controlled much of the Upper Nile for nearly three centuries, they did not become a settled people. They remained desert-based throughout, interested only in dominating their peripotamian subjects.

The situation changed dramatically in 536, when Emperor Justinian outlawed pagan worship and ordered the removal of the idols at Philae. Outraged, the Blemmyes resumed their raids. Four years later, their hold on the Dodekaschoinus was broken—but not by Rome. Silko, the newly Christianized king of the northern nubian kingom of nobatia, led an army north, and defeated the Blemmyes so thoroughly that they relinquished all of the Nile and retreated to the desert. The end of their hegemony marked the final blow to paganism in Christian Egypt.

Today, the descendents of the ancient Medjay are part of the Muslim Beja nation.






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Old February 25th, 2012, 06:30 PM   #6
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Another african superpower you need to get to know.A MOVIE OR A FEW MOVIES AND A MINI- SERIES SHOULD BE DONE ABOUT THIS ONE TOO.

Axum or Aksum is a city in northern Ethiopia which was the original capital of the eponymous kingdom of Axum. Population 56,500 (2010). Axum was a naval and trading power that ruled the region from ca. 400 BC into the 10th century. The kingdom was also arbitrarily identified as Abyssinia, Ethiopia, and India in medieval writings.
Axum was the center of the marine trading power known as the Aksumite Kingdom, which predated the earliest mentions in Roman era writings. Around 356, its ruler was converted to Christianity by Frumentius. Later, under the reign of Kaleb, Axum was a quasi-ally of Byzantium against the Persian Empire. The historical record is unclear, primary sources limited mainly to ancient church records.

It is believed it began a long slow decline after the 7th century due partly to Islamic groups contesting trade routes. Eventually Aksum was cut off from its principal markets in Alexandria, Byzantium and Southern Europe and its trade share was captured by Arab traders of the era. The Kingdom of Aksum was finally destroyed by Gudit, and eventually the people of Aksum were forced south and their civilization declined. As the kingdom's power declined so did the influence of the city, which is believed to have lost population in the decline similar to Rome and other cities thrust away from the flow of world events. The last known (nominal) king to reign was crowned ca. 10th century, but the kingdom's influence and power ended long before that.


________
The Kingdom of Aksum or Axum, also known as the Aksumite Empire and Abyssinia, was an important trading nation in northeastern Africa, existing from approximately 100–940 AD. It grew from the proto-Aksumite Iron Age period ca. 4th century BC to achieve prominence by the 1st century AD, and was a major player in the commerce between the Roman Empire and Ancient India. The Aksumite rulers facilitated trade by minting their own currency, the state established its hegemony over the declining Kingdom of Kush and regularly entered the politics of the kingdoms on the Arabian peninsula, eventually extending its rule over the region with the conquest of the Himyarite Kingdom.
Under Ezana (fl 320–360), Aksum became the first major empire to convert to Christianity, and was named by Mani (216–276) as one of the four great powers of his time along with Persia, Rome, and China. In the 7th century the Muslims, who originated in Mecca, sought refuge from Quraysh persecution by travelling to Aksum (Abyssinia), a journey famous in Islamic history as the First Hijra. Aksum's ancient capital is found in northern Ethiopia. The Kingdom used the name "Ethiopia" as early as the 4th century.[2][3] It is also the alleged resting place of the Ark of the Covenant[4] and the purported home of the Queen of Sheba.[citation needed].

The Empire of Aksum at its height extended across most of present-day Eritrea, northern Ethiopia, Yemen, southern Saudi Arabia and northern Sudan. The capital city of the empire was Aksum, now in northern Ethiopia. Today a smaller community, the city of Aksum was once a bustling metropolis, cultural and economic center. Two hills and two streams lie on the east and west expanses of the city; perhaps providing the initial impetus for settling this area. Along the hills and plain outside the city, the Aksumites had cemeteries with elaborate grave stones called stelae, or obelisks. Other important cities included Yeha, Hawulti-Melazo, Matara, Adulis, and Qohaito, the last three of which are now in Eritrea.

In the 3rd century, Aksum began interfering in South Arabian affairs, controlling at times the western Tihama region among other areas. It dominated states on the Arabian Peninsula across the Red Sea, making them pay Aksum a regular tribute.[8] By the late 3rd century it had begun minting its own currency and was named by Mani as one of the four great powers of his time along with Persia, Rome, and China. It converted to Christianity in 325 or 328 under King Ezana and was the first state ever to use the image of the cross on its coins. By 350, they conquered the Kingdom of Kush.[8] At its height, Aksum controlled northern Ethiopia, Eritrea, northern Sudan, southern Egypt, Djibouti, Yemen, and southern Saudi Arabia, totalling 1.25 million square kilometers.

note- kush and the beja were great powers still at this time but for some reason the writer left that out


Aksum remained a strong empire and trading power until the rise of Islam in the 7th century. However, unlike the relations between the Islamic powers and Christian Europe, Aksum (see Aṣḥama ibn Abjar), which provided shelter to Muhammad's early followers around 615, was on good terms with its Islamic neighbors.[8] Nevertheless, as early as 640, Umar ibn al-Khattāb sent a naval expedition against Adulis under Alkama bin Mujazziz, but it was eventually defeated.[10] Aksumite naval power also declined throughout the period, though in 702 Aksumite pirates were able to invade the Hejaz and occupy Jeddah. In retaliation, however, Sulayman ibn Abd al-Malik was able to take the Dahlak Archipelago from Aksum, which became Muslim from that point on, though later recovered in the 9th century and vassal to the Emperor of Ethiopia.[11]


___________
We are finding out to the the mande civilization in west africa in ancient times had a strong force and there was some other african civilization that were powerful in ancient times has well.Not has powerful has nubia or axum in ancient times but powerful enough.

The trick is you do not have to be the most powerful,just powerful enough so know one could mess with you.



and see this.

the Garamantes a ancient african civilization in the sahara/north africa

EgyptSearch Forums: the Garamantes a ancient african civilization in the sahara/north africa

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Old February 25th, 2012, 08:49 PM   #7
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QUOTE-
The trick is you do not have to be the most powerful,just powerful enough so no one could mess with you.



HERE IS TOPICS WITH LOTS OF INFO.

Topic: ot - Cavalries of the Western Sudan/Sahel

EgyptSearch Forums: ot - Cavalries of the Western Sudan/Sahel


Topic: White Slaves South Of The Desert
EgyptSearch Forums: White Slaves South Of The Desert

Topic: the Garamantes a ancient african civilization in the sahara/north africa

The Garamantes were a kingdom of the Sahara in North Africa, just as the Songhai empire, Ghana Empire ,Nubian Kush civilization ,and Mali empires were . And yes the Garamantes were Berbers just as the Zaghawa and Tebu. The Garamantes may have been part of the Sao-civilization some researchers have speculated,and the Garamantian civilization indeed extended their influence into the interior of the Sahara desert all the towards the Sahelian regions.The Garamantes civilization spanned from 900 BC TO 600 AD In this post I would like to evaluate the knowledge of the Garamantes and their effect on Roman life.

TO READ MORE CLICK LINK BELOW.
EgyptSearch Forums: the Garamantes a ancient african civilization in the sahara/north africa
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Old February 25th, 2012, 10:18 PM   #8

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How come no mention of the Roman victory over the Kushites and Blemmyes in 297?

I would be curious to know the exact names of the material you are using that states Rome lost four wars against Kush, and specifically that Yesbokheamani defeated Diocletian.

To quote another member, "Thanks in advance."
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Old February 25th, 2012, 10:24 PM   #9
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It was a back and forth of course in any major battles but in the end kush just won the war,again.rome was no joke and you can't take anything from them,but kush and the blemmyes were no joke either.

There seems a battle in the 1 cen. a.d.,but hard to say it was a war or not. ASSUME ROME WANTED TO INVADE AGAIN,BUT IF THEY DID THEY DID NOT GET ANYWHERE.

I would LOVE TO SEE some movies about these wars OR A MINI-SERIES TO DO IT JUSTICE.African films makers need to think about that.

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Old February 25th, 2012, 10:27 PM   #10

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Can you give me a book to research. I have this one, The kingdom of Kush: the Napatan and Meroitic empires, by Derek A. Welsby, but it doesn't corroborate the information presented in your earlier posts. I would be open to it, but I would need to research it more fully.
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