12 21 2012 is there a danger? - Page 55 - Historum

**Zarin** · May 11th, 2012, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclefred

Nice!

This particular link you provided does offer that the Maya at the time of these murals' creation were experiencing a calamity which was outside their previous experience or ability to calculate. That is because what these Maya were experiencing was a weather fractalization caused by phenomena not experienced within their culture's lifetime. The very same thing which could occur with our very own civilization at any time through numerous causalities. Just because we know something may occur does not mean we are prepared for it. And we are not prepared for much.

**Zarin** · May 11th, 2012, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Young Guard

I believe that there is a danger in 12 21 2012 and now I'm getting survival materials.

Young Guard. You would be wise not to reveal any details of your plans to anyone you do not emphatically trust. And you must be able to trust the close mouthed potential of those you do tell 100%.
It never hurts to try to be prepared for any eventuality, if you can afford so. However, there will be millions of people totally unprepared for any potential disasters. Whether they come on 12 21 2012 or not. And those unprepared will definitely move to take what you have, if you are indiscreet about whom you give such information to. It would be best to keep such preparations totally to yourself and surprise those closest to your heart at the very last minute. Won't they be pleasantly surprised and hopefully grateful.

**Earl_of_Rochester** · May 11th, 2012, 10:21 AM

Yet more abstract philandering at the expense of scientific study to try and defend the indefensible.

You cannot provide any concrete evidence for any of your waffle and just about everything you've stated in this thread has been debunked, from talking to ghosts to the Mayan Calendar. This entire way of thinking inhibits the progress of the human race because it encourages people to believe in magic instead of facts, not to mention the dubious moral issues for misleading gullible people and taking their money.

**Vintersorg** · May 11th, 2012, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earl_of_Rochester

Yet more abstract philandering at the expense of scientific study to try and defend the indefensible.

You cannot provide any concrete evidence for any of your waffle and just about everything you've stated in this thread has been debunked, from talking to ghosts to the Mayan Calendar. This entire way of thinking inhibits the progress of the human race because it encourages people to believe in magic instead of facts, not to mention the dubious moral issues for misleading gullible people and taking their money.

/thread, IMHO.
Couldn't have worded it better.

**unclefred** · May 11th, 2012, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarin

This particular link you provided does offer that the Maya at the time of these murals' creation were experiencing a calamity which was outside their previous experience or ability to calculate. That is because what these Maya were experiencing was a weather fractalization caused by phenomena not experienced within their culture's lifetime. The very same thing which could occur with our very own civilization at any time through numerous causalities. Just because we know something may occur does not mean we are prepared for it. And we are not prepared for much.

I'm not one to dismiss or denigrate someones spiritual quest. Certainly there are many folks interested in this Mayan calender. I am very interested in the Maya, am not worried about the calender though. The major contributer (perhaps) to the fall of the Maya was, as you mention, prolonged drought. This was actually shown to be the case by an amatuer archeologist in the 80's using sea bed core samples from the period and polar ice core samples. It stood against the establishment view then, and faced a lot of obstruction.
Recent politics tended to diminish the role of drought and wanted to emphasize mismanagement of the environment and other poor ecological practices. Finally, in science circles, if not the popular media, the strong role of the long drought period is getting it's due.
This may also be due to the current emphasis on climate change in everything related to science.

**Earl_of_Rochester** · May 11th, 2012, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Re-cycled Mayan calendar nonsense

… or, B’ak’tun The Future.
There’s some buzz going around the web right now because some Mayan archaeologists found wall writings in the Xultun ruins in Guatemala dealing with the Mayan calendar. The writing clearly shows the Mayan calendar extending well past 2012.
As you can imagine, this is being played up as (yet more) evidence the world won’t end come December.
Well, duh.

But the thing is, we already knew that. I mean, of course we know there’s nothing to any of the Mayan Apocalypse nonsense doomcriers are advocating. That’s all crap. But in this case, as far as I can tell, what they found doesn’t change much in this regard. It’s a fascinating archaeological find and gives insight on how the Mayans worked out their math and astronomy when it came to calendars — there are notes painted on the wall clearly describing the patterns of Venus and Mars in the sky, which is very cool — but I don’t think it changes the 12/21/12 nonsense at all.
Mostly because we already knew their calendars went past December 21 of this year! For one thing, the cycle that ends this year, the b’ak’tun, is a repeating cycle. The ancient Mayans had lots of cycles to their calendar, just as we do. We have cycles of days, weeks, months, years, decades… The Mayans used different units, but it boils down to the same idea. They had cycles roughly equivalent to a month, a year, and so on.
The b’ak’tun is a unit roughly 394 years long. When one b’ak’tun ended, another one started, just like any other cycle. So when the b’ak’tun we’re in now ends, on or about December of this year, why then, the next one starts up.
Think of it this way: what happens on December 31 of every year? You throw away the old calendar and hang up a new one. Tadaaa!
Worse, there’s no evidence that the Mayans even thought the end of this b’ak’tun was the time of any kind of renewal, doomsday, or anything. All of that nonsense can be traced back to a series of New Agey books and speculations that built on one another like a pyramid built upside down. At some point, it’ll fall over. Stuart Robbins at Exposing Pseudoastronomy has a great series of articles all about this.
By the way, there are longer Mayan calendar cycles, too, like the pictun, which is 20 b’ak’tuns. The pictun we’re in now ends in the 4772! So clearly the Mayans didn’t think the world was ending in 2012.
There’s also one cycle that lasts for 63 million years! If you believe in the Mayan Apocalypse, I guess they knew about the asteroid impact that wiped out the dinosaurs, too.
If I sound a little exasperated, well, I am. I have never been a fan of nonsense, but nonsense doomsday conspiracy theories really make me angry. Whether the doomsday mongers believe in what they say or not, they are scaring people over stuff that’s provably wrong! If evil exists, that kind of thing falls under the definition in my book.
If there’s any good to come of any of this, it’s a renewed interest in the real Mayan culture, calendars, and how the ancient peoples of our planet used astronomy to reckon time. And, as usual, reality is far more interesting, engaging, and plain old cool than any nonsense we can make up about it.

Re-cycled Mayan calendar nonsense | Bad Astronomy | Discover Magazine

-Phil Plait, the creator of Bad Astronomy, is an astronomer, lecturer, and author. After ten years working on Hubble Space Telescope and six more working on astronomy education, he struck out on his own as a writer. He's written two books, dozens of magazine articles, and 12 bazillion blog articles. He is a skeptic and fights the abuse of science, but his true love is praising the wonders of real science.

**bunyip** · May 11th, 2012, 05:54 PM

Quote:

-Phil Plait, the creator of Bad Astronomy, is an astronomer, lecturer, and author. After ten years working on Hubble Space Telescope and six more working on astronomy education, he struck out on his own as a writer. He's written two books, dozens of magazine articles, and 12 bazillion blog articles. He is a skeptic and fights the abuse of science, but his true love is praising the wonders of real science.

I suspect largely a mater of preaching to the choir.

When a lie is more interesting or emotionally satisfying than the truth, the credulous,the paranoid, and the ignorant will usually choose the lie,unswayed by anything as prosaic as logic or proof.The mass media use this principle on a daily basis.

**Zarin** · May 12th, 2012, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclefred

I'm not one to dismiss or denigrate someones spiritual quest. Certainly there are many folks interested in this Mayan calender. I am very interested in the Maya, am not worried about the calender though. The major contributer (perhaps) to the fall of the Maya was, as you mention, prolonged drought. This was actually shown to be the case by an amatuer archeologist in the 80's using sea bed core samples from the period and polar ice core samples. It stood against the establishment view then, and faced a lot of obstruction.
Recent politics tended to diminish the role of drought and wanted to emphasize mismanagement of the environment and other poor ecological practices. Finally, in science circles, if not the popular media, the strong role of the long drought period is getting it's due.
This may also be due to the current emphasis on climate change in everything related to science.

Thank You Uncle Fred for introducing one of the many problems in establishing the legitimacy of any concepts within the entropy of human understanding. Politics.

**Zarin** · May 12th, 2012, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclefred

I'm not one to dismiss or denigrate someones spiritual quest. Certainly there are many folks interested in this Mayan calender. I am very interested in the Maya, am not worried about the calender though. The major contributer (perhaps) to the fall of the Maya was, as you mention, prolonged drought. This was actually shown to be the case by an amatuer archeologist in the 80's using sea bed core samples from the period and polar ice core samples. It stood against the establishment view then, and faced a lot of obstruction.
Recent politics tended to diminish the role of drought and wanted to emphasize mismanagement of the environment and other poor ecological practices. Finally, in science circles, if not the popular media, the strong role of the long drought period is getting it's due.
This may also be due to the current emphasis on climate change in everything related to science.

I am not worried about the Mayan calendar, either. The Calendar only suggests there may be a change around the current pic'tun cycle ending on 12 21 2012. The Mayan Calendar does not specify what the ending of this cycle entails or means, either. Nor does the Calendar not depict time after this particular cycle comes to an end. That is because the Maya knew that time does not end according to their world view, only cycles of time.
Potential Doomsday scenarios are coming from many different directions. And "doomsday" may not even be what occurs, if anything does.
The Mayan Calendar is only a small piece of the 12 21 2012 tapestry. The Calendar merely has been perceived as an important intiating signal to many of the "doomsday" people. Along with the numerous others associated with this 12 21 2012 date.
I consider it a "signal" as well, but I, personally, do not yet know what this particular signal means. And I consider it a "signal" because I do not arbitrarily reject the belief systems of any ancient people, especially the Maya.
However, that so many other systems or "signals" are also involved at this same juncture of time, adds seeming credulity to the possibility that 12 21 2012 may be a potent and important crux for upcoming change in human civilization. Not necessarily negative either.

**Zarin** · May 12th, 2012, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earl_of_Rochester

Yet more abstract philandering at the expense of scientific study to try and defend the indefensible.

You cannot provide any concrete evidence for any of your waffle and just about everything you've stated in this thread has been debunked, from talking to ghosts to the Mayan Calendar. This entire way of thinking inhibits the progress of the human race because it encourages people to believe in magic instead of facts, not to mention the dubious moral issues for misleading gullible people and taking their money.

Your post is nothing more than a vapid generalization, which says absolutely nothing. Talk about waffling. You haven't disproved anything or debunked anything I've posted. And the use of the term "concrete" explains you entire thinking process. There is no concept in the human experience that is "concrete." Everything in this universe is subject to change. Everything.