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Old May 25th, 2012, 11:32 PM   #1
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United States elective monarchy


What if the Constitutional Convention would of adopted Alexander Hamilton's plan to make the presidency on good behavior, and that was the only change?

How would this of affected the Civil War?

Would the Speaker of become the de facto prime minister?

Would it of become semi-hereditary?

Would there of still been a Vice President?

How would this of effected the history of the United States?
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Old May 26th, 2012, 06:06 AM   #2

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Hamilton wasn't really a monarchist. At least not in the sense that we understand monarchy. He advocated an elective monarchy. Even so, it was never going to happen. The colonists had had enough of kings by that point.

Alexander Hamilton and the Idea of a Monarchist's Republic - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com
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Old May 26th, 2012, 06:45 AM   #3

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefferypendragon View Post
What if the Constitutional Convention would of adopted Alexander Hamilton's plan to make the presidency on good behavior, and that was the only change?

How would this of affected the Civil War?
Depends. If the king of america wanted to stop the spread of slavery,
then there would have still been a rebellion in the country.


Quote:
Would the Speaker of become the de facto prime minister?
No. Traditionally despite the Speaker being the second in line to become
president, maybe only two would be easily recognizable to most people.
I don't see the speaker being so highly elevated.

Quote:
Would it of become semi-hereditary?
Yes. There's the cancer of a monarchy: the automatic moving up of an
unqualified or un-elected person to power.

Quote:
Would there of still been a Vice President?
Yes. I can see this position being the de facto prime minister you
spoke of.

Quote:
How would this of effected the history of the United States?
It would totally, and fully have altered the history of the land.
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Old May 26th, 2012, 01:02 PM   #4

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Really speculative ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefferypendragon View Post
What if the Constitutional Convention would of adopted Alexander Hamilton's plan to make the presidency on good behavior, and that was the only change?

How would this of affected the Civil War?
Something tells me that the Southern states were more monarchist then the rest of the colonies. But I don't see how this would have avoided the Civil War. A possibility was to see the "American King" leading the Southern states against the Northern ones ...

Quote:
Would the Speaker of become the de facto prime minister?
No, that would have been a very odd choice: a mixture of legislative and executive power ...

Quote:
Would it of become semi-hereditary?

Would there of still been a Vice President?
The elective monarchy? I don't think so.

A "Vice President" would have been useless. In some democracies the Prime Minister has got a Vice Prime Minister, but it's not that essential [for example in Italy it happens that there is a Vice PM or not ..]

Quote:
How would this of effected the history of the United States?
A King? One never knows. There is even the eventuality that the American King making a suitable marriage could have had occasion to become King of England and so an "American King" of the British Empire ...
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Old May 26th, 2012, 03:29 PM   #5

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One interesting question would be how much more harsh the punishment for the Confederates would have been at the conclusion of the Civil War, seeing as rebelling against a crown has always been a historical.......faux pas.
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Old May 26th, 2012, 06:56 PM   #6
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Clarifications

I did not mean a open monarchy. In this scenario the President would still have been elected but would serve until removed by Congress, he resigned, or he died. So a monarchy not very cleverly disguised, but with no crown, or throne. Unless you think it would of turned into that, by the time of the civil war.

The question about the Speaker was relevant, because I recalled, correct me if I'm wrong, that Speakers of the past had almost become a quasi- prime minister in the past.
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Old May 26th, 2012, 07:11 PM   #7

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefferypendragon View Post
Clarifications

I did not mean a open monarchy. In this scenario the President would still have been elected but would serve until removed by Congress, he resigned, or he died.
Then he would be a puppet to be manipulated with no power with feet of clay.
1) If a president wanted to set in motion on of his ideas, and Congress
didn't like it, they could gang up on him and push him out.
Elections would be sporadic perhaps with some people never voting
in their lives.
2) Would the president still choose his own VP?
2a) Would the VP automatically fill in for any vacated presidency?

Quote:
The question about the Speaker was relevant, because I recalled, correct me if I'm wrong, that Speakers of the past had almost become a quasi- prime minister in the past.
Very few Speakers of the House are remembered today:
Clay, Garner and Rayburn, might be the only ones.
And if you really want to stretch it, past the VP of course, to
the pro tempore of the Senate, then those names get historically
fuzzy as well except for Byrd and Thurmond.
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Old May 26th, 2012, 07:24 PM   #8
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Congress can remove the President now, my scenario does not change the method 2/3 of both houses.
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Old September 29th, 2012, 05:28 AM   #9
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A better way to get monarchy is the wish by the infant US army to make George Washington the first monarch. Washington obejected "we are getting rid of George III, I am not going to stand to become George I." Yet Washington is smart enough to take the presidency - the last thing he wanted was the army to make him king withoug his say so.
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Old September 29th, 2012, 05:31 AM   #10

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazeuma View Post
A better way to get monarchy is the wish by the infant US army to make George Washington the first monarch. Washington obejected "we are getting rid of George III, I am not going to stand to become George I." Yet Washington is smart enough to take the presidency - the last thing he wanted was the army to make him king withoug his say so.
While I'm a Washington fan and I don't mean to minimize his position here, I wonder whether there wasn't a bit of concern for his legacy.
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