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June 27th, 2012, 08:49 PM
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#1 | | Historian
Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 2,459 | Dona Marina vs Sacagawea
Both women became influential interpreters that changed the course of history. Dona Marina was a Nahua woman taken as a slave and sold to Mayan traders. She was given to Cortez as a gift from natives of Tabasco. Dona Marina spoke Nahautl and Mayan. Cortez had a Spanish man accompanying his expedition, who once was shipwrecked on the Mayan coast and spoke fluent Mayan. Between these two people Cortez was able to converse with most of the tribes in Mexico he came in contact with. While at Cholula, Dona Marina overheard of a plot to kill all the Spaniards and revealed this to Cortez. Cortez turned the tables and slaughtered many Cholulans. Without her assistance, Cortez would not have known much of the interesting information about many of the people Cortez encountered. Especially the Aztecs. Dona Marina quickly learned to speak Spanish and was able to directly communicate with Cortez. She eventually became his mistress and bore him a son. Dona Marina is also known by the name "Malinche." Sacagawea was a Shoshone woman kidnapped by the Hidatsa at the age of 12. She was bought by a French trapper named Charbonneau and became his wife at 13. She spoke Shoshone, Hidatsan and French. She was hired along with Charbonneau to guide the Meriwether Lewis and William Clark exploratory exdpedition of 1804-05. Sacagewea also was very familiar with many of the landmarks on the eastern side of the Rocky Mountains. Her presence in the expedition put many tribes at ease with Lewis and Clark because no war party ever included women. Plus when the expedition finally encountered the Shoshones, their chief turned out to be Sacagewea's brother. She was eventually resettled to St. Louis upon the prompting of Lewis.
Both of these women greatly affected the history of the world. Which do you consider the most important and why?
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Last edited by Zarin; June 27th, 2012 at 09:36 PM.
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June 27th, 2012, 08:53 PM
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#2 | | Guardian Knight
Joined: Oct 2010 From: USA Posts: 7,973 |
I would say La Malinche, because I don't think Cortes could have succeeded without her.
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June 27th, 2012, 08:55 PM
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#3 | | ...
Joined: Jun 2009 From: Absurdistan Posts: 24,536 |
Have to go with the home team on this one.
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June 27th, 2012, 09:08 PM
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#4 | | Guardian Knight
Joined: Oct 2010 From: USA Posts: 7,973 | Quote:
Originally Posted by okamido Have to go with the home team on this one. |
Okay, but you're taking a guide and explorer over a military advisor, diplomat and conqueror.
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June 28th, 2012, 10:27 AM
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#5 | | Historian
Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 2,459 |
I voted for Dona Marina because without her skills, Cortez would never have altered history so dramatically. But my affection goes to Sacagewea.
Dona Marina is not referred to as "Malinche" for no reason.
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June 28th, 2012, 12:12 PM
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#6 | | ...
Joined: Jun 2009 From: Absurdistan Posts: 24,536 | Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake10 Okay, but you're taking a guide and explorer over a military advisor, diplomat and conqueror. | So what? Is this about the girls or the men that followed them?
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June 28th, 2012, 03:40 PM
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#7 | | Guardian Knight
Joined: Oct 2010 From: USA Posts: 7,973 | Quote:
Originally Posted by okamido So what? Is this about the girls or the men that followed them? | It is about the girls, and Sacagawea was a guide and an explorer, while Dona Marina advised Cortes on military matters, helped him gain allies by using her diplomatic skills, and is, to this day, considered one of the main reasons the Spanish conquest of Mexico succeeded. She was a conqueror alongside her husband. Her son is also seen as the first Mexican ever born, even if there might have been others before him. What does your girl have on her?
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June 28th, 2012, 11:21 PM
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#8 | | Historian
Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 2,459 | Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake10 It is about the girls, and Sacagawea was a guide and an explorer, while Dona Marina advised Cortes on military matters, helped him gain allies by using her diplomatic skills, and is, to this day, considered one of the main reasons the Spanish conquest of Mexico succeeded. She was a conqueror alongside her husband. Her son is also seen as the first Mexican ever born, even if there might have been others before him. What does your girl have on her? | Actually Dona Marina's son with Cortez isn't consider the first "Mexican," but the first Mestizo or mixed blood.
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June 28th, 2012, 11:33 PM
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#9 | | Historian
Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 2,459 | Quote:
Originally Posted by okamido So what? Is this about the girls or the men that followed them? | This is about the effect these two women had on history by assisting certain men through their unique translating abilities. Sacagewea's was mainly towards peaceful exploration that eventually lead to conquest of hers and many other native peoples Lewis and Clark encountered.
While Dona Marina's was directly connected to conquest. Dona Marina is also often referred to as "Malinche," which essentially means traitor. However, she had no love for either the Maya or the Aztecs, who treated her rather cruelly. Dona Marina definitely fell in love with Cortez and vice versa. If you ask me me, Dona Marina should be referred to as "Avenger" instead. She gave back as good as she got. Cortez treated her with respect, kindness and love. She gave all of this back to him along with her steadfast loyalty.
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