Son of Cathal

Another what if

What if Operation Overlord had failed? The invasion fleet was discovered and the Germans were ready. The Airborne troops were killed or captured and the invasion repelled.

Had this happened I think Russia would have eventually been pushed back or they would have won on their own and conquered the remainder of Europe.

There is always the possibility that America may have had the A bomb ready before Germany surrendered in this case and Japan would not have been the only country to receive a nuke up its tail pipe

Edgewaters

Probably wouldn't matter too much ... a setback, but not as big as you might imagine. As soon as they realized they'd lost the element of surprise, they would have retreated under heavy air cover, so losses probably wouldn't be that high. They knew they were gambling with Overlord and even had speeches prepared in the event it failed, but the thought was that they could attempt it, without losing too much if it failed.

If it failed, they'd probably abandon the idea of landing on the Normandy coast and simply step up the Italian campaign. This was already going well, with the Allies closing in on Rome. It would take longer to reach Germany and France this way but the end result was just as inevitable.

Aaz

What about the possibility of the Iron Curtain spreading further westward?

I don't think Germany could have repelled Russia once they were on the back foot. I just think they lacked the manpower - especially if the British and Americans attempted to get at Berlin through Italy as Edgewaters suggested.

Pfaxt3ld

Stalin would have conquered western europe. Maybe the western allies would have broken through Italy in time to prevent Stalin from conquering western europe but America would probably have to develope the atom bomb first. There's no doubt in my mind that they could get to Germany through Italy but the hard part would be beating Stalin there. Also with France secure, more german divisions could be deployed to halt the allied advance through Italy. Nazi Germany's days were numbered once Hitler started directing orders to his troops on the eastern front rather than letting his officers take care of it so even if D-Day was repelled, Germany was destined for defeat.

Edgewaters

Well, here's an interesting question: could the Americans use the atom bomb on a European center? What would the political fallout be like?

Lucius

Yes. Definitely. Political fallout, political schmallout. It's war.

Yes, yes - Americans weren't racist against the Germans. But that would not have saved them from The Bomb. It was a matter of saving American soldiers' lives and that's all that would have mattered.

Pfaxt3ld

Very good point. I agree with Lucius about the main thing being saving American lives. It's like when America decided not to invade Japan because some of experts predicted hundereds of thousands of casualties so I think they would go on with it anyway.

Son of Cathal

Do you think the Germans were as fanatical about protecting Germany as the Japanese were about protecting Japan?

Edgewaters

This is getting interesting!

Aaz

Hmmm. I would say no. Compared to the Japanese, the Germans had no respective inherent Bushido code embedded into their social genetics. Also, Japanese respect for their leader was much more fanatical, and less divided, than that of the Germans for Hitler who as we all know, had numerous attempts at his life.