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Old September 15th, 2012, 06:52 AM   #1
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King Tut in the Bible


Here is an Idea - King Tutanchamun is the Pharoah of the Exedus.

Here is the evidence -
1. King Tut's father was the world first histoically knwon Monotheist, some of his odes to Aten are in the Bible where "I am who I am" replaces Aten.


2. King Tut is burried with two infant children who DNA tests suggest that they were his children. These children died very early of some unknwon disease (death of the First Born)

3. After Achenaton's death there was a purge of monotheists led by Tut, Aye, and Hornheb - the monotheists would have fled. Damage on Tut's body shows a fall from a chariot that caused his death. The pharoah of the bible is assumed to have died falling from his chariot.
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Old September 15th, 2012, 07:40 AM   #2

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When he was a young prince, Tut's official name was initially Tut-ankh-aten, i.e. Living Image of Aten, indicating that he was still under the sway of the monotheistic Atenism pioneered and promoted by his father Akh-en-aten, i.e. Living Spirit of Aten.

That Tut's name changed to Tut-ankh-amun, i.e. Living Image of Amun - soon after his coronation as the new pharaoh at 10 years old - meant only one thing - that powerful political figures - the powers behind the throne - around him, guys like Vizier Ay and General Hor-em-heb, managed to pressure Tut to abandon God Aten and return to God Amun, as a way to regain the support of the politically powerful Amun-worshipping Egyptian priesthood.

Did Tut really die of a fall from a chariot? There's no way of knowing for sure. But it was a time of political uncertainty for Egypt, having declined in authority and influence from Akh-en-aten's decades of weak leadership, with their northern rivals the Hittite Empire of Anatolia, then under the formidable Suppiluliuma I (the Great), now encroaching on Egypt's northern boundaries.

Egypt needed a strong pharaoh to counter Suppiluliuma, and Tut wasn't really the man for the job, he was still only a kid. Tut's removal would have paved the way for a stronger leader to take charge, and both Ay and Hor-em-heb were highly ambitious men. Indeed, they both eventually became pharaoh, one after the other, after Tut.

The authors of the Bible would have reported the 'official' cause ot Tut's death from statements prepared and endorsed by the new pharaoh's (i.e. Ay) palace. Could Ay, or Hor-em-heb, or both, have had a hand in Tut's death? Not impossible. If one or both of them had arranged to have Tut assassinated - arrowed, speared, lanced, stabbed with a sword, or simply bashed to death with a piece of wood - while getting off his chariot, wouldn't it have been convenient to report his death as caused by a fall from his chariot? Your guess is as good as mine.

One more point, could one just fall from a chariot and die? From being run over and crushed by the wheels, perhaps, or from being trampled by the horses. But just from falling out of a chariot? Again, your guess is as good as mine.

From what I have read, the majority view is that the Pharaoh of the Exodus was long reigning Rameses II (1279 - 1213 BC), while Tut reigned 1332 - 1323 BC.

Last edited by Dreamhunter; September 15th, 2012 at 09:09 AM.
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Old September 15th, 2012, 08:02 AM   #3

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamhunter View Post
From what I have read, the majority view is that the Pharaoh of the Exodus was long reigning Rameses II (1279 - 1213 BC), while Tut reigned 1332 - 1323 BC.
That was my understanding as well, though I am no Ancient Egypt scholar.
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Old September 15th, 2012, 08:59 AM   #4

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No one will ever know which pharaoh ruled at the time in qustion, saying it was
Rameses II is pure speculation. Because he ruled for over sixty years doesn't
automatically make him 'the guy.'
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Old September 15th, 2012, 10:04 AM   #5

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But Ramses II is a suitable subject for Hollywood [and historical novels].

A part that in popular eyes that Pharaoh has got the look of Yul Brynner, there are some interesting coincidences in his kingdom which deserve some attention.

As said in other thread we can put some "stated point" in the history of "Israel" [the people].

1. The Amarna letters tell us that a kind of "client Lord" reigned on Urusalem [future Jerusalem] and that he was fighting against tribes [Khabiru / Apiru] and that he asked for help to the Pharaoh.

The archives arrives at the time of Tutankhamon [around 1350 BCE] and it doesn't contain clues that an exodus happened

2. Merneptah. This Pharaoh added information about his military campaign in Canaan around 1200 BCE on an existing stela [which took his name in Egyptology].

On that stone, among the defeated local entities there is also "Israel".

So around 1350 BCE - Israel has not settled in Canaan yet, probably the tribes mentioned by the client Lord in Urusalem can be the tribes of the Israelite communities.

If this is true, some Israelite communities have already left Egypt.

Around 1200 BCE Israel has defeated by a Pharaoh.

In the middle there are ...

Ay
Horemeb
Ramses I
Sethi I
Ramses II
Merneptah [or Merenptah]

My opinion is that in this period waves of Apiru left Egypt to reach Canaan.

An other tasteful particular is that under the command of Ramses II there was a Mose for real: see item n. 374 at Hildesheim Pelizaues Museum, the so called "stele of Mose" [1270 BCE about, under Ramses II. Mose was a high officer receiving awards from the Pharaoh].
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Old September 15th, 2012, 10:40 AM   #6

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpinLuke View Post
But Ramses II is a suitable subject for Hollywood [and historical novels]....

...A part that in popular eyes that Pharaoh has got the look of Yul Brynner...
Yes, The Ten Commandments, i.e. Brynner & Heston, have cut some deep
ruts in History with their movie version.
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Old September 15th, 2012, 11:09 AM   #7

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpinLuke View Post
1. The Amarna letters tell us that a kind of "client Lord" reigned on Urusalem [future Jerusalem] and that he was fighting against tribes [Khabiru / Apiru] and that he asked for help to the Pharaoh.

The archives arrives at the time of Tutankhamon [around 1350 BCE] and it doesn't contain clues that an exodus happened
This actually starts either during Amenophis III's (Amenhotep III)or more likey, Ahkenaten's reign, with Labayu (Saul?) running roughshod over the vassals of Egypt.

Abdu-Hebi requests archers from Egypt as the king's lands are being overrun and U-ra-sa-lim is next.
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Old September 15th, 2012, 12:04 PM   #8

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Originally Posted by kazeuma View Post
2. King Tut is burried with two infant children who DNA tests suggest that they were his children. These children died very early of some unknwon disease (death of the First Born)
I thought they were fetuses?

Discovery News : Fetus Mummies Likely Were King Tut's Offspring
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Old September 15th, 2012, 12:08 PM   #9

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Does it not seem strange that Moses is supposed to have lived from 1391 BCE to 1271 BCE and Ahkenaten from 1380 BCE to 1334 BCE. Was Moses an acolyte or high priest of Ahkenaten? He was expelled (or escaped) from Egypt and did go to Midian for awhile only to return to eventually free those of his people, who were enslaved after Ahkenaten's fall. Or did he? Did the Hebrews merely escape from Egypt during the onslaught of persecution from Horemheb and Ay? Moses name means "born from water." But could this be merely a corruption of the name of Thoth or Thothmoses or Thutmoses (the name of several pharoahs with Thutmoses III being the most famous), the Egyptian god of wisdom and whose head is symbolized by the Ibis, a water bird? Moses was considered to be a very wise man and the greatest of all the Hebrew prophets. He is also reputedly the author of the Torah.
Where did the ten plagues, the guiding column by night and day, plus the parting of the Red Sea mythos come from? These events have been associated with logical causality to the eruption of Thera on Santorini. However, this event came 400 years earlier between 1627-1800 BCE. Could this entire compilation of the Exodus be nothing more than a compendium of Egyptian lore up to the time the Hebrews resettled in Canaan? However, there is a clue offered in the Jewish celebration of the Sabbath. The bread of the Sabbath is called the "bread of haste" and it is served with "bitter herbs." This bread is only made when you are on the run and bitter herbs usually come from nutritionally deprived areas such as deserts. Was all of this mythos about plagues and freedom voluntarily given merely a cover up for running away from severe persecution? And thus hiding the true source of their spiritual belief system? The Egyptian authorities, at the time of Horemheb, would have been relentless in stamping out the remaining vestiges of Ahkenaten. Wisdom dictates extreme discretion under such circumstances. Thus the Hebrew "god with no name." Using the term Aten would have brought on immediated death. If all this is so, then the most likely Pharoah of the Exodus was Tut, but in name only. More likely, it was one of his two viscious and ambitious successors, Horemheb or Ay. Mainly, because these three pharoahs existed at the time of Moses; while Rameses existed over 100 years later. Somewhere along the line, the mythos and the actual archeological evidence will need to be brought together. Something not likely with such a wide disparage in time and contemporary political agendas. The last thing the Jews want to embrace is that they are the children of Aten and the descendants of Ahkenaten's philosophy. As are Christians and Moslems as well.
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Old September 15th, 2012, 12:55 PM   #10

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Quote:
Originally Posted by okamido View Post
This actually starts either during Amenophis III's (Amenhotep III)or more likey, Ahkenaten's reign, with Labayu (Saul?) running roughshod over the vassals of Egypt.

Abdu-Hebi requests archers from Egypt as the king's lands are being overrun and U-ra-sa-lim is next.
I was thinking to the temporal limit [the latest period of the Amarna letters] to put a starting point for the extension of time between them and the stele of Merneptah.

Just those letters make me thing that a great unique exodus probably never happened, but that we should look for more modest periodical migration during some centuries.
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