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Old October 15th, 2012, 11:51 PM   #1

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Question Carthage defeated Rome


We all know that after long and wide wars Rome was able to erase the power of Carthage from the geographical map, starting de facto its domain on the Mediterranean Sea.

But, what if history went the other way round?

We know that it was the geographical context of Carthage to make it less able to sustain long wars than Rome [and to recover from defeats]. So to imagine that Carthage found a way to win the confrontation we have to think to something decisive.

Like for example that Carthage instead of engaging Rome for so long time, "took a rest" to build an alliance or something similar with Egypt [under Greek power in that period with the Ptolemaic dynasty].

In case of such an alliance, Carthage would have had enough resources to resist until the final defeat of Rome.

Let's say that the 3rd Punic War ended with the triumph of the alliance Carthage - Ptolemaic Egypt.

Which kind of Mediterranean would have we seen starting from such a different context?
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Old October 16th, 2012, 01:07 PM   #2

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Good question. What does Carthage do with the defeated Rome and its territories?
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Old October 16th, 2012, 01:20 PM   #3

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Really difficult question. I suppose tribes on the Balkan peninsula would continue to develop as a independent kingdom, German tribes would maybe sacked Italy few times, while Gauls would make some war with Carthaginians in Spain...
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Old October 16th, 2012, 01:46 PM   #4

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Maybe the rise to power by the Franks and the Germans would had been in the earlier part of their civilization.

Then the religion of people maybe Carthagian Catholics instead of Roman, lol.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 03:16 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by dagul View Post
Maybe the rise to power by the Franks and the Germans would had been in the earlier part of their civilization.

Then the religion of people maybe Carthagian Catholics instead of Roman, lol.
I don't think that Carthage could have contended with Persia for control of the Levant.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 04:51 PM   #6

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Originally Posted by Mephistopheles View Post
I don't think that Carthage could have contended with Persia for control of the Levant.
If it can defeat Rome, then what shall stop it from destroying Persia? It can absorb the Roman Legions and create it as its army destroying the Persians in the process.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 05:29 PM   #7

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Perhaps the result would be a western Mediterranean empire, with Carthage gradually conquering both Spain and Gaul. Who can guess what would happen if they set their ambitions further east.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 05:41 PM   #8

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Perhaps the result would be a western Mediterranean empire, with Carthage gradually conquering both Spain and Gaul. Who can guess what would happen if they set their ambitions further east.
I am obliged to agree with this somewhat, although to what extent Rome would wait before re-conquering/waging war again, is another matter.

If Carthage were able to keep Spain and possibly Gaul, then they have a good chance of competing with Parthia and her territories, considering the continued gathering of wealth and naval reach Carthage would possess.

Its possible they could even ally with Greece to some extent if they sought future conquests in the east, or to help them maintain control control of the mediterranean whilst they war in the east.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 05:42 PM   #9

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I have never seen anything that would suggest Carthage would have absorbed a defeated Rome and Italian territories. Perhaps they would have created a colony in Northern Italy in order to trade with North Europe, but unless Rome is razed and its citizens sold into slavery, it most likely would have rebounded just as Carthage did several times, and with a populace that was much more martial than Carthage had at its disposal....Rome still comes out on top.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 05:49 PM   #10

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Originally Posted by okamido View Post
I have never seen anything that would suggest Carthage would have absorbed a defeated Rome and Italian territories. Perhaps they would have created a colony in Northern Italy in order to trade with North Europe, but unless Rome is razed and its citizens sold into slavery, it most likely would have rebounded just as Carthage did several times, and with a populace that was much more martial than Carthage had at its disposal....Rome still comes out on top.
This is of course the big worry I implied in my first paragraph.

Alo, I would imagine the terms imposed by Carthage would not be as bad as the reverse, considering they were merchants and like all other mediterranean cultures, operated within the norms of classical warfare.

Unles Rome was crushed completely, they would almost definitely strike again with force.

I imagine Spain would definitely be a target for reclamation though, because of the riches and manpower available.
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