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Old November 8th, 2012, 04:35 AM   #11

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Its doubtful that the allies would have accepted a peace deal. The Germans clearly didn't understand how anti-German the allied populations and leaders were. I remember reading a message from Margaret Thatcher to George Bush as Germany planned to reunify that she was totally opposed to the notion because of World War II. That was nearly half a century later.

Also, if Germany only had to fight on the Eastern Front, the war would have turned out completely different. Millions of soldiers would have been freed up from the West, not to mention the morale boost that it would give to the German people. Also, allied bombings of German cities would have stopped, leaving the German population still willing to fight, and industry in tact. As much as Stalin hated the Germans, the war would have gone on forever. This, combined with the fact that much of the Soviet population supported the Nazis, would have forced Stalin to accept a peace deal.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 09:00 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tairusiano View Post
Very interesting Hitler death in 1939 no war maybe, a great number of variables open in this scenario, and opens space for guys like Reinhard Heydrich too
The war had started the previous month when the attempt I brought up took place.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 10:22 AM   #13

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mephistopheles View Post
The war had started the previous month when the attempt I brought up took place.
You are right my mistake here

but like as said before open a bunch of variables, the german army retreating from Poland maybe? and maybe a peace with the allies
another variable the soviet army marching over poland..
and a allience betwen England France and German and Poland (crazy i know).

or the nazi regime suffering a coup d'etat and a democratic german a communist one.
or worse guys like Heydrich can take the power and a worst Nazi regime (if that can be possible)
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Old November 8th, 2012, 10:29 AM   #14

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Today, 8 Nov. 1939
Click the image to open in full size.
Hitler survives a bomb explosion at the 16th anniversary of Beer Hall Putsch.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 03:41 PM   #15

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Hitler dies and the Nazi leadership almost starts a civil war as Himmler, Goebbels, and Goerring fight over who takes power. The military establishes a dictatorship in an attempt to put rational leadership in charge.

The military then lets the western allies take over Germany and puts all of its efforts into holding back the Soviets.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 03:52 PM   #16
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Can't remember where, but I seem to remember some author proposing a curious purportedly historical scenario where the real Herr Hitler would have been killed the 20 July 1944 and some doppelganger would have taken his place for the rest of the war (i.e. dying at Berlin 1945) under the control of some top Nazi, particularly Bormann.

Has anyone here read something like that?
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Old November 19th, 2012, 11:42 AM   #17
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Exclamation Allies would never negotiate with Germans...


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Originally Posted by gregorian View Post
The plan was to make peace with the Allies, so that they could fight the Russians.
I think peace with the Russians was long off the table. Too much hate. And the Soviet Union was winning and getting it's revenge. No reason to stop.

Would the Western Allies accepted a deal? After the war, captured German generals seemed surprised at how much the West was against Germany. I think there was a bit of wishful self delusion going on. In March 1944 Himmler tried to open up secret negotiation with the USA, which the Americans and British refused to seriously entertain. So, no.
After all the Allies wanted nothing to do with the Nazis on the negotiation tables. They wanted to eradicate all National Socialist views in the world and would have never agreed to negotiate with Nazi Germany. The only thing that I can imagine was if Germany would have surrendered what would have happened. I guess, nothin different what happed in real life...
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Old November 19th, 2012, 11:49 AM   #18

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If Hitler was killed and the plot successful, I don't think much would've changed in regards to Germany's military situation. Germany with a more capable leadership might be able to hold out for a little longer, maybe til July or August 1945; presuming the new government doesn't surrender sooner. I think the more major effect would be in post-war geopolitics; where the Western Allies might be more willing to keep the military infrastructure of the Wehrmacht intact and utilise it to their advantage in the coming Cold War with the Soviets. De-Nazification wouldn't be emphasized as much by the occupation forces; and German society might not be as ridden with guilt over the war. Some thoughts.
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Old December 2nd, 2012, 08:44 AM   #19
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The Munich Plot would have been easier to negotiate a peace.

As for the Stauffenburg plot - The allies would not care who succeeded, they continue the war reguardless. The problem would be a competent leader like Rommel in charge, a competent leader could force the Allies to rethink the war.
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Old December 2nd, 2012, 11:40 AM   #20

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The Germans move all of their men from the western front to the east and let the western allies take Berlin before the Russians cross the Vistula.
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