Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > Themes in History > Speculative History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Speculative History Speculative History Forum - Alternate History, What If Questions, Pseudo History, and anything outside the boundaries of mainstream historical research


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old November 13th, 2012, 06:06 AM   #31

Spartacuss's Avatar
Western Philistine
 
Joined: Jul 2010
From: Georgia, USA
Posts: 6,891

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartieboy View Post
Correct, Charles Nogues was definetly not a supporter of Germany and was only loyal to France.
After the battle of France there was a wide spread hatred for the British, the French felt like the British had abandonned them and let them bleed for their wars.
Indeed. Their apparent hatred of the British was factored in the plans for Torch. "Army at Dawn" gives fascinating accounts of the predawn opening gambits of the operation where British Commando's and American troops were sent in to secure the two most important ports. Some were carried in on British destroyers that actually expected to land the troops on the piers. They prominently displayed the American flag (while also flying small RN pennants) in hopes of lessening the possibility of Vichy resistance. Nice try, but the Vichy in those ports were determined to resist as a matter of honor, and wreaked havoc among the invaders, though the objectives were eventually gained. Things like this adding the general conduct of both the Free French and Vichy throughout the actual war, leads me to believe the historic mistrust of France towards both Germany and Great Britain would prevent a tri-pact alliance.
Spartacuss is offline  
Remove Ads
Old November 13th, 2012, 06:13 AM   #32
Historian
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,080

The nations had no common interests so it's hard to see an alliance. Nazi Germany was expansionist, aggressive, and revisionist (in terms of changing the result of 1918). Britain did not want war, was basiclly a pro status quo power.

Any scenario, involves some other nation being a bigger threat and starting it's own world war before the Nazis got around to it. Stalin only really started his stuff after Adolf provided the distraction, it's hard to see him umping out of the blocks beforehand.
pugsville is online now  
Old November 13th, 2012, 06:26 AM   #33

Spartacuss's Avatar
Western Philistine
 
Joined: Jul 2010
From: Georgia, USA
Posts: 6,891

Quote:
Originally Posted by pugsville View Post
The nations had no common interests so it's hard to see an alliance. Nazi Germany was expansionist, aggressive, and revisionist (in terms of changing the result of 1918). Britain did not want war, was basiclly a pro status quo power.

Any scenario, involves some other nation being a bigger threat and starting it's own world war before the Nazis got around to it. Stalin only really started his stuff after Adolf provided the distraction, it's hard to see him umping out of the blocks beforehand.
Good point on the British desire of status quo. Their prosecution of the actual war completely backs up your point. Defeat of the Soviet Union would have been important, of course, but the British would also guard against unwanted influence from their allies regarding any changes in the makeup of their Empire. That they did so in the actual war is abundantly clear.
Spartacuss is offline  
Old November 13th, 2012, 06:33 AM   #34

Irish Yankee's Avatar
Archivist
 
Joined: Jul 2012
From: Penn's Woods
Posts: 138

1) A different regime in the UK
2) Lack of a non-aggression pact Soviet Union and Germany
3) No guarentee to defend Poland
Irish Yankee is offline  
Old November 13th, 2012, 06:45 AM   #35

astafjevs's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Oct 2012
From: Bristol, England
Posts: 766

Quote:
Originally Posted by redcoat View Post
His party didn't have a single MP in parliament.
Quite, but look at the OP - The Soviets never made a pre-emptive strike on Poland either.

The BUF had some support in the late 30s, it's just that fortunately they never got to test it in an election.
astafjevs is offline  
Old November 13th, 2012, 06:50 AM   #36

astafjevs's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Oct 2012
From: Bristol, England
Posts: 766

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacuss View Post
Good point on the British desire of status quo. Their prosecution of the actual war completely backs up your point. Defeat of the Soviet Union would have been important, of course, but the British would also guard against unwanted influence from their allies regarding any changes in the makeup of their Empire. That they did so in the actual war is abundantly clear.
Defeat of the Soviet Union would have been impossible by any or all of the European powers, allied with each other or not, in my opinion.

It'd have taken all Europe plus the States and probably use of an atom bomb or two, in my opinion.
astafjevs is offline  
Old November 13th, 2012, 07:56 AM   #37

WeisSaul's Avatar
Historian
 
Joined: Mar 2012
From: New Amsterdam
Posts: 2,545

Quote:
Originally Posted by astafjevs View Post
Defeat of the Soviet Union would have been impossible by any or all of the European powers, allied with each other or not, in my opinion.

It'd have taken all Europe plus the States and probably use of an atom bomb or two, in my opinion.
Pre-1941, this is untrue.
WeisSaul is offline  
Old November 13th, 2012, 08:23 AM   #38
Suspended indefinitely
 
Joined: May 2010
From: Rhondda
Posts: 2,964

Quote:
Originally Posted by WeisSaul View Post
Pre-1941, this is untrue.
Can you see the poncey boss-class doing it on their own? They'd have had to, you know, and they couldn't run a piss-up in a brewery, or even dress themselves.
Iolo is offline  
Old November 13th, 2012, 08:26 AM   #39

astafjevs's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Oct 2012
From: Bristol, England
Posts: 766

Quote:
Pre-1941, this is untrue.
Perhaps. It certainly didn't happen, in any case
astafjevs is offline  
Old November 13th, 2012, 08:30 AM   #40

OccamsRazor's Avatar
Scholar
 
Joined: Sep 2012
From: London, just like the Queen
Posts: 735

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartieboy View Post
But of course, this gentleman was Mr. William L. Shirer
Click the image to open in full size.
Thanks.
OccamsRazor is offline  
Reply

  Historum > Themes in History > Speculative History

Tags
alliance, conditions, germany, nazi, ww2


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Nazi Germany would have won WII if... Commander Speculative History 195 February 20th, 2014 12:41 AM
Could Nazi Germany have made Britain into an ally? SuperEgz European History 25 August 12th, 2012 10:02 PM
Nazi alliance with Japan plutoboyz European History 37 August 5th, 2010 03:18 AM
Germany's alliance with Russia and Austria together Kinan European History 11 May 3rd, 2010 06:09 AM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.