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Old November 13th, 2012, 09:34 AM   #41

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Originally Posted by WeisSaul View Post
Pre-1941, this is untrue.
Agreed. The reality of the Winter War against Finland shows the damage of Stalin's Great Purge.

I also think Iolo brings a valid point on the difficulties dealing with the reluctance of the general populace in Britain to support a first strike offensive against the Soviets during the proposed period.
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Old November 13th, 2012, 09:41 AM   #42

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Originally Posted by Spartacuss View Post
Agreed. The reality of the Winter War against Finland shows the damage of Stalin's Great Purge.
And they undid all of that damage in the the space of two or three years? No. They didn't need to.

The German war effort was partly based on Soviet raw materials that they'd bought. If they'd gone in earlier, they'd have had nothing to run their tanks on.

I'm not arguing that the Soviet Union was in a position to invade or conquer central or western Europe in 1941, but it was strong enough and well enough stocked with people and raw materials to have survived. As it did.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 06:29 AM   #43

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Originally Posted by srb7677 View Post
Chances are, the USSR would have fallen in this scenario, but if it didn't, and actually withstood the German onslaught before driving back into Poland and then Germany, the British and French would have grown increasingly alarmed at the spread of Bolshevism into central Europe. In this situation, it is concievable that both Britain and France would have become full military Allies of Nazi Germany, to defend central Europe against the spread of Communism.
Sounds like someone caught between a rock and a hard place, having to choose between the devil and the deep blue sea.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 01:50 AM   #44
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If they treated the soviet vassal states (ukraine, latvia, estonia, khazakstan, turkmenistan etc) better than the Germans did . They would have had a pretty large force.
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Old November 13th, 2015, 10:22 PM   #45

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Originally Posted by bartieboy View Post
If Hitler had kept quiet in 1939 then he cold have used the winter war to form an alliance to the UK against the USSR.
Would the Winter War have even occurred without the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, though?
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Old November 13th, 2015, 10:24 PM   #46

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Originally Posted by Mephistopheles View Post
possible? Mind you an alliance meaning autonomous partners rather than what we saw with Vichy. Also let's avoid extreme counterfactuals like a Fascist U.K. and the like.

Perhaps the Soviets making a preemptive strike on Poland earlier in the 30s or perhaps a move on Iran?

How about an alliance between Germany and the U.S. or Germany and France? What conditions would have been necessary in both of those?
Having someone who believes in international Communist revolution (such as Leon Trotsky) come to power in the Soviet Union in Stalin's place and then try invading British India in the 1930s or 1940s might do the trick here.
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