Historum - History Forums  

Go Back   Historum - History Forums > Themes in History > Speculative History
Register Forums Blogs Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Speculative History Speculative History Forum - Alternate History, What If Questions, Pseudo History, and anything outside the boundaries of mainstream historical research


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old November 10th, 2012, 06:52 AM   #1
Archivist
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 246
Metal battle


During the of the War between the States there were two monsters of the seas - the USS Monitor, the first iron battleship with a turret, and the CSS Huntley, the world's first successful submarine boat. By some chance what would happen if the two met in the same waters? Who would limp away to fight again?
kazeuma is offline  
Remove Ads
Old November 13th, 2012, 09:36 AM   #2

joshuaaaronhodak's Avatar
Academician
 
Joined: Nov 2012
From: kapolei Oahu HI
Posts: 72
Blog Entries: 2

The monitor would not be able to engage conventionally but could always ram...of course the crew would first have to be aware of the Huntley's presence....I feel the monitor would be the victor
joshuaaaronhodak is offline  
Old November 13th, 2012, 09:55 AM   #3

bartieboy's Avatar
.
 
Joined: Dec 2010
From: The Netherlands
Posts: 6,527
Blog Entries: 5

Monsters? What an exaggeration, they were bugs compared to ships like the HMS warrior
bartieboy is offline  
Old November 13th, 2012, 11:01 AM   #4

joshuaaaronhodak's Avatar
Academician
 
Joined: Nov 2012
From: kapolei Oahu HI
Posts: 72
Blog Entries: 2

In there time they were truly monsters of the seas
joshuaaaronhodak is offline  
Old November 13th, 2012, 12:16 PM   #5

Ancientgeezer's Avatar
Revisionist
 
Joined: Nov 2011
From: The Dustbin, formerly, Garden of England
Posts: 4,702

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuaaaronhodak View Post
In there time they were truly monsters of the seas
There is an odd conception often expressed on these pages that Ironclads warships were invented in the US, presented a revolution in technology and the American vessels were all-conquering. Maybe its American schoolbooks. The Monitor-Merrimack battle was the first Ironclad-Ironclad clash, but the Merrimack/Virginia was really cobbled together in a hurry and was quite crude. The Monitor was innovative in that it was the first operational ironclad warship with a turrent and its very low freeboard. While the low freeboard premitted a concentration of armour in made the vessel quite unseaworthy and only useful for close-in coastal work.
In both cases they were ironCLADS, that means that they had metal plates overlaying a wooden structure, they were not iron ships.

Compare these numbers:-

Monitor
987 tons
Length 172 ft.
Top speed 8knts
Armamant 2 x 11in guns

Warrior
9210 tons
Length 418 ft
Top Speed 17.5 knts (15knts steam)
Armament
26 muzzle-loading 68-pounder guns
10 RBL 7 inch Armstrong guns

4 RBL 40 pounder Armstrong guns

Gloire
5630 tons
Length 255 ft
Top speed 11 knts
Armament
36 163 mm rifled muzzle-loaders model (1858/60)

Last edited by Ancientgeezer; November 13th, 2012 at 12:29 PM.
Ancientgeezer is offline  
Old November 13th, 2012, 12:36 PM   #6

bartieboy's Avatar
.
 
Joined: Dec 2010
From: The Netherlands
Posts: 6,527
Blog Entries: 5

Thank you geezer, well anyway enough about the monsters case, I suppose it would only be decent to get back to the original question.
How would a surface vessel of the time defend a submarine?
I don't think depth charges had been invented yet?
bartieboy is offline  
Old November 13th, 2012, 01:42 PM   #7

Ancientgeezer's Avatar
Revisionist
 
Joined: Nov 2011
From: The Dustbin, formerly, Garden of England
Posts: 4,702

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartieboy View Post
Thank you geezer, well anyway enough about the monsters case, I suppose it would only be decent to get back to the original question.
How would a surface vessel of the time defend a submarine?
I don't think depth charges had been invented yet?
The Hunley and other early submersibles (not really submarines were they?) had limited weapons. They depended mainly on the torpedo, which was not the self-propelled torpedo we think of today, it was more of a mine on the end of a spar of wood that was "rammed" against the target. A submersible could also drop off a floating or tethered mine in the vague hope that an enemy vessel would blunder into it, but the spar-torpedo was their only weapon so they had to just about touch a target vessel. So the best defence for an anchored ship would be a boom around the vessel with a few bells attached and short range cannon. The submersible would have no chance of intercepting a capital ship under way. The Hunley was hand-powered and the steam-torpedo boats of the confederacy could just manage 2-3 knts and ramming would soon see one off.
Ancientgeezer is offline  
Old November 14th, 2012, 12:32 PM   #8
Archivist
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 246

The Monitor was not totally IRON clad. In the battle with the Virginia (formerly the Merrimack) it was rammed by its iron ram and was taking on some water - this meant that under the waterline the Monator was partually vulnerable....

Therefore, if the Huntley had the element of surprise and could attack the Monitor's vulnerable section --- the Uniton Ship may loose.

Though if the Huntley did not have the element of suprise or the Monitor was not moving, it is likely the Monitor's guns would doom her.
kazeuma is offline  
Reply

  Historum > Themes in History > Speculative History

Tags
battle, metal


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Metal and Native americans? sturm American History 48 July 20th, 2014 10:22 AM
Metal Detecting jamie_b General History 17 December 21st, 2013 06:10 AM
Heavy Metal Panthera tigris altaica Art and Cultural History 171 January 25th, 2013 05:35 PM
Is this song the first example of Christian Metal? CIowa Art and Cultural History 1 April 24th, 2011 02:25 AM

Copyright © 2006-2013 Historum. All rights reserved.