Only the Deep South secedes - Historum

WeisSaul · November 12th, 2012, 04:51 AM

Historically, the deep south left left over slavery (propert), and the upper south left in protest over the mobilization in order to crush the rebellion.

What if instead, just the deep south (S Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Florida) left and formed the Confederacy, and Texas left to reestablish the Texas Republic, with the upper south staying in the Union?

**Mike McClure** · November 12th, 2012, 07:25 AM

High tariff laws in the North would have caused a shift in international trade to the South.

**tjadams** · November 12th, 2012, 07:33 AM

The same inevitable outcome, only sooner.

Aulus Plautius · November 12th, 2012, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjadams

The same inevitable outcome, only sooner.

I agree. I would think as a corollary to the OP would be what if only South Carolina seceded? Would Lincoln have seen the need to invade SC or would he have let them go and try a diplomatic solution rather than risk the entire south seceding?

**tjadams** · November 12th, 2012, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aulus Plautius

I agree. I would think as a corollary to the OP would be what if only South Carolina seceded? Would Lincoln have seen the need to invade SC or would he have let them go and try a diplomatic solution rather than risk the entire south seceding?

I have extremely strong opinions on Lincoln and the war, but when I write
those I get attacked (yadda yadda, from cut and paste historians).
But I can see if only SC left, that Lincoln could have used political
persuasion and his tact for negotiation, to get SC back into the Union
without almost 700,000 Americans dying. Lincoln was a smooth, talking lawyer
and very charming in person. I can see him using those gifts in
getting other influential Southerners to talk SC back into the fold before
shots could be fired.

WeisSaul · November 12th, 2012, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aulus Plautius

I agree. I would think as a corollary to the OP would be what if only South Carolina seceded? Would Lincoln have seen the need to invade SC or would he have let them go and try a diplomatic solution rather than risk the entire south seceding?

Something like this. Would the north just wait out the confederacy and Texas and wait for things to collapse?

Aulus Plautius · November 12th, 2012, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeisSaul

Something like this. Would the north just wait out the confederacy and Texas and wait for things to collapse?

I agree with TJ. The seccession of the Deep South would have resulted in the same civil war. Lincoln had the option to wait them out in the original time line, but chose not to.

Aulus Plautius · November 12th, 2012, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjadams

I have extremely strong opinions on Lincoln and the war, but when I write
those I get attacked (yadda yadda, from cut and paste historians).
But I can see if only SC left, that Lincoln could have used political
persuasion and his tact for negotiation, to get SC back into the Union
without almost 700,000 Americans dying. Lincoln was a smooth, talking lawyer
and very charming in person. I can see him using those gifts in
getting other influential Southerners to talk SC back into the fold before
shots could be fired.

WeisSaul does ask an interesting OP.

What if it was only Texas that seceded? Texas is a unique case having been independent before joining the union.

How many states could have seceded before Lincoln would have saw the need to call up troops?

**Wenge** · November 12th, 2012, 08:11 AM

I believe that as much as we revere Mr. Lincoln he is the part and partial to blame for the more than 600,000 deaths that occurred during the War. His own words put him at fault and to blame. To paraphrase, "If I can save the union without freeing the slave or by freeing some of the slaves or even none of the slaves then I will be happy.

I realize this is a very loose paraphrase but it is what it is.

WeisSaul · November 12th, 2012, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aulus Plautius

WeisSaul does ask an interesting OP.

What if it was only Texas that seceded? Texas is a unique case having been independent before joining the union.

How many states could have seceded before Lincoln would have saw the need to call up troops?

All the initial 13 states + Vermont were independent before joining the Union as well. The Articles were more like the modern UN than the US. People conventionally said the United States are, not the United States is.

Besides, the republic period was the darkest time in Texas history. There was a reason the Texans gave it up. Would they have fared well all alone?