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Old November 15th, 2012, 12:36 PM   #21

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Trinities are a fairly common component of many mythologies. Greek mythology had Zeus, Hades and Poseidon, Hinduism has Brahma, Shiva and Vishnu, and Shinto has Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi and Susano-o.
Maya mythology has a few trinities too, but they aren't as important as the dualities. Mesoamerican mythology was extremely dualistic, and has quite a few parallels with Hinduism. The Maya also had a particularly strong emphasis on the death/rebirth theme, though the only religion I can think of where the death and rebirth of a god was as important if not moreso than it was to the Maya would be Christianity.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 12:39 PM   #22

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Trinities are a fairly common component of many mythologies. Greek mythology had Zeus, Hades and Poseidon, Hinduism has Brahma, Shiva and Vishnu, and Shinto has Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi and Susano-o. There a Father, a Son and a Holy Spirit in the mythology of a certain other religion too...
Add in the Greek Hecate:
Hecate Hecate

Also the Egyptian trinity: Osirus-Isis-Horus
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Old November 15th, 2012, 12:40 PM   #23

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What qualifications does one get in the "professional" field of mythology?
I can talk about my country. In Italian there is the word "mitologo", mythologist. But it's a historian with the passion of mythology ... [in Italy the faculties of literature and history give specialization about mythology].
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Old November 15th, 2012, 12:43 PM   #24

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Add in the Greek Hecate: Hecate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also the Egyptian trinity: Osirus-Isis-Horus
Yes, but let's not forget that ancient Egyptians preferred the ennead as "group of reference" about deities [9 Gods, usually connected to a city as center of cult].
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Old November 15th, 2012, 12:52 PM   #25

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Yes, but let's not forget that ancient Egyptians preferred the ennead as "group of reference" about deities [9 Gods, usually connected to a city as center of cult].
A trinity of trinities!
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Old November 15th, 2012, 01:02 PM   #26

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Odin also had two brothers, Vili and Ve, making them a trinity.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 04:26 PM   #27

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Odin also had two brothers, Vili and Ve, making them a trinity.
Do Vili and Ve take approximately equal prominence as Odin in Norse Mythology?

I think apocalyptic messianic figures are also common in different religions. In Christianity, we have Jesus. In Judaism, Messiah. In Islam, Mahdi. In Hinduism, Kalki. In Zoroastrianism, Saoshyant. In Buddhism, Meitreya. In Norse Mythology, Baldr.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 10:18 PM   #28

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What qualifications does one get in the "professional" field of mythology?
You would require professional qualifications in the fields of anthropology and sociology, at the very least. You would also need to be formally recognised at the academic level and formally employed as a professional mythologist.

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Myths of dying gods didn't exist in antiquity?
That is not what I said.

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Or are you speaking of a particular myth?
I am referring specifically to the concept of a pre-Christian 'dying-and-rising-god' motif.

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A dying god myth does not have to be literal like Jesus.
Agreed.

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You're really trying to tell me that all of these stories: Dying god - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia are entirely modern fabrications?
Firstly, that is not what I said. Please read my post.

Secondly, let's be clear about the category we're discussing. A 'dying-and-rising god' is one who dies and returns to life as part of a perpetual cycle. He dies, he rises, he dies, he rises... endlessly. He doesn't just die and return to life once.

Thirdly, the list you have cited is hilariously inaccurate and blatantly misrepresents the data in the same way that Campbell and Frazer did. Let's look at a few examples:

Quote:
Phoenix
The phoenix is a mythical animal, not a god.

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Odin
Odin dies only once (slain by Fenrir in the battle of Ragnarok, at the end of the world) and does not return to life. He is not a 'dying-and-rising god.'

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Baldr
Baldr is accidentally killed by Hr and remains dead. He does not return to life and is therefore not a 'dying-and-rising god.'

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Julunggul
Julunggul is the rainbow serpent of Australian Aboriginal mythology. Although associated with the concepts of life and rebirth (due to her relationship with rain and the seasons) she does not actually die and is therefore not a 'dying-and-rising god.'

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Orpheus
Orpheus is a human being, not a god. He visits the Underworld while he is still alive. He does not die, and successfully returns to the world of the living. He is not a 'dying-and-rising god.'

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Osiris
The Osiris myth has several variations.

In one version, Osiris dies and does not return to life. Isis temporarily reanimates his penis to impregnate herself, but Osiris remains dead. In another, Osiris is temporarily resurrected but dies again later. In yet another, Osiris is not a god but a human king. He dies and does not rise again.

Osiris is not a 'dying-and-rising god.'

I could go on and on. Seriously, that list is just plain idiotic. It's enough to make a professional academic weep tears of laughter.

Don't believe everything you read on Wikipedia.
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Old November 16th, 2012, 12:25 AM   #29

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Odin dies only once (slain by Fenrir in the battle of Ragnarok, at the end of the world) and does not return to life. He is not a 'dying-and-rising god.'
Odin sacrifices himself to himself and hangs himself for nine days from Yggdrasil, which is the source of his classification as a dying god.

However, it's not a pre-Christian concept in this case as it dates from around the 9th-10th century, I believe.
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Old November 16th, 2012, 12:38 AM   #30

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Firstly, that is not what I said. Please read my post.
Okay. You said: "Proponents of the 'dying/rising god' myth will be horrified to learn that it never existed in antiquity but was fabricated by modern scholars (and pseudoscholars) with ideological motivations."

Perhaps you worded it wrong but I fail to see how it could be taken any other way. When more than one person misunderstood you, maybe it's because you've worded it poorly.

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I am referring specifically to the concept of a pre-Christian 'dying-and-rising-god' motif.
I agree that relating the ancient rebirth myths to Jesus' resurrection may not always be appropriate but that's not what you initially said. You specifically said the myth never existed.

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Secondly, let's be clear about the category we're discussing. A 'dying-and-rising god' is one who dies and returns to life as part of a perpetual cycle. He dies, he rises, he dies, he rises... endlessly. He doesn't just die and return to life once.
Not according to everything I've read.

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Thirdly, the list you have cited is hilariously inaccurate and blatantly misrepresents the data in the same way that Campbell and Frazer did.
Well, it is Wikipedia... but whether going off that list or not, my point was merely that there are a number of ancient myths with the death and rebirth of a god. Whether or not that should be of a perpetual cycle, we'll have to agree to disagree on.
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