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Old November 16th, 2012, 08:46 AM   #51

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Cool. Thanks for sharing. You've got some great info that I am not familiar with.
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Thanks a lot.
You're welcome in which I can help in Brazilian Native American history
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in reality Tupă (the badass god)gave me the mission to save the souls
of the Historum members(only a joke)
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Old November 16th, 2012, 08:50 AM   #52

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Not quite sure what you find so funny about it, especially considering that you believe in a book that many 'professional academics' believe to be mythology.
Because there are a great number of prominent 'professional academics' who do not believe it to be mythology.

On the other hand, the dying-rising motif, is almost universally rejected by 'professional academics', many of who are both anti-theist and wish to discredit Christianity (but would rather do so by legitimate means as opposed to falsified fabrications), and other non-religious people who have no stake in the matter.

And in fact, if you really want to get into the whole issue of apologetics... There are very very few Biblical scholars that one could even remotely begin to think of or call out as "apologists".
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Old November 16th, 2012, 08:59 AM   #53

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Because there are a great number of prominent 'professional academics' who do not believe it to be mythology.
Curious. Just what do these "professional academics" believe it is? And could you provide any links to these "professional" opinions?
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Old November 16th, 2012, 09:00 AM   #54

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Good question Rasta. I have read several of Joseph's Campbell's books and they seemed very logical and make great sense to me. And have seen and heard many positive references to his work. Never anything of a negative basis...until this OP. Many artists use his ideas to convey what they believe are universal images.
The idea that there is commonality among mythologies is not a new one or an illogical one.
That there are "archtypes" to mythology also seems self-evident. It would be great to create a compendium of the entire world's mythologies organized as to archtype and subject. Doing so might then qualify someone for a degree in "mythology."
I personally have not read Campbell's work, so maybe I should. Saying there are similar templates or archetypes that can be found in religions around the world is very different from Sankari's sources that are arguing against a mono-myth, for example the type that is presented in the film Zeitgeist.

Zeitgeist goes way too far by suggesting that various myths are directly connected and manipulated by a shadowy elite behind the scenes. Of course this is not necessary for various religious traditions to use similar archetypes.

Thinking in archetypes is just the way the human mind works. It's why movies, stories, and mythology employ the same themes over and over again. Our minds are drawn to think in ways that are already familiar.
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Old November 16th, 2012, 09:01 AM   #55

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You're welcome in which I can help in Brazilian Native American history
I will be on disposal

in reality Tupă (the badass god)gave me the mission to save the souls
of the Historum members(only a joke)
LOL! Sign me up.
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Old November 16th, 2012, 09:06 AM   #56

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You're welcome in which I can help in Brazilian Native American history
I will be on disposal

in reality Tupă (the badass god)gave me the mission to save the souls
of the Historum members(only a joke)
Awesome!

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Because there are a great number of prominent 'professional academics' who do not believe it to be mythology.

On the other hand, the dying-rising motif, is almost universally rejected by 'professional academics', many of who are both anti-theist and wish to discredit Christianity (but would rather do so by legitimate means as opposed to falsified fabrications), and other non-religious people who have no stake in the matter.

And in fact, if you really want to get into the whole issue of apologetics... There are very very few Biblical scholars that one could even remotely begin to think of or call out as "apologists".
I would suggest that one day new religions will rise up and the modern religions will disintergrate and will be believed to be no different than how christians view pagan myths today.

That's the circle of life and the nature of time and change.
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Old November 16th, 2012, 09:10 AM   #57

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Originally Posted by Thegn Ansgar View Post
Because there are a great number of prominent 'professional academics' who do not believe it to be mythology.

On the other hand, the dying-rising motif, is almost universally rejected by 'professional academics', many of who are both anti-theist and wish to discredit Christianity (but would rather do so by legitimate means as opposed to falsified fabrications), and other non-religious people who have no stake in the matter.

And in fact, if you really want to get into the whole issue of apologetics... There are very very few Biblical scholars that one could even remotely begin to think of or call out as "apologists".
The bread and butter of apologetics relies on discrediting the criticisms of others rather than providing viable theories of their own.
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Old November 16th, 2012, 09:21 AM   #58

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Because there are a great number of prominent 'professional academics' who do not believe it to be mythology.
There certainly are a number of secular historians who do believe that Jesus was an actual human being that existed in first century Palestine. However that is a far stretch from believing he walked on water, raised the dead, interacted with demons, turned water into wine, multiplied fish and bread, etc.
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Old November 16th, 2012, 09:23 AM   #59

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I personally have not read Campbell's work, so maybe I should. Saying there are similar templates or archetypes that can be found in religions around the world is very different from Sankari's sources that are arguing against a mono-myth, for example the type that is presented in the film Zeitgeist.

Zeitgeist goes way too far by suggesting that various myths are directly connected and manipulated by a shadowy elite behind the scenes. Of course this is not necessary for various religious traditions to use similar archetypes.

Thinking in archetypes is just the way the human mind works. It's why movies, stories, and mythology employ the same themes over and over again. Our minds are drawn to think in ways that are already familiar.
If you study religions as I have attempted to do, you find most are built on a universal archetype...the family. With a strong father god, his equally strong wife and a retinue of family members. Members who are constantly fighting or competing among themselves and their offspring. Even Christianity has its' family retinue. God as a trinity of father, son and Holy Ghost seems to lack the presence of the "wife." Yet the "Marian" cult rapidly growing within Christianity seems to be compensating for this oversight. One often wonders why Christianity lacks the inclusion of femininity into its' godhead, but this may be an evolution based on power rather than any theology. In the case of Christianity a sort of struggle between the Deity and one of his "creations" (often comparable to a brother or son) is improvised between Lucifer (Satan) and his creator or father. Just as happened between brothers in many other religions. Moreover, most Christians refer to God as the "father." So, if anything, the family structure is the archetype for most religious pantheons.
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Old November 16th, 2012, 09:29 AM   #60

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If you study religions as I have attempted to do, you find most are built on a universal archetype...the family. With a strong father god, his equally strong wife and a retinue of family members. Members who are constantly fighting or competing among themselves and their offspring. Even Christianity has its' family retinue. God as a trinity of father, son and Holy Ghost seems to lack the presence of the "wife." Yet the "Marian" cult rapidly growing within Christianity seems to be compensating for this oversight. One often wonders why Christianity lacks the inclusion of femininity into its' godhead, but this may be an evolution based on power rather than any theology. In the case of Christianity a sort of struggle between the Deity and one of his "creations" (often comparable to a brother or son) is improvised between Lucifer (Satan) and his creator or father. Just as happened between brothers in many other religions. Moreover, most Christians refer to God as the "father." So, if anything, the family structure is the archetype for most religious pantheons.
Very interesting thoughts. I think there is some truth to that. One feature that I do find interesting in many monotheistic world views is that they are often littered with all kinds of other beings, which to me shows obvious connection to previous traditions.
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