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Old November 15th, 2012, 11:12 AM   #21

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I clearly did read the link. Or I would not have known that a monolith and other artifacts were also connected to this same article. And also photographed for perusal. How one interprets the information in the article is up to each viewer. I am not an expert on cuneiform and will leave that determination up to those who are. However, there are several various forms of script on each of these artifacts. My purpose was merely to surmise how such objects may have come to exist. And of course, any actual credulity given to them would come about by dating them accurately. Interesting that you say this monolith is dated to 1000 BCE, this would put it into the same approximate time as the Phoenicians.
That's 1000 CE not BCE, so no Phoenicians.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 11:30 AM   #22
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What do you think? Did the two cultures have common ancestors? Did they communicate with one another? Or maybe writing was given to them by a seperate source all together?this link may help... Atlantisbolivia.com/sumeria or
World Mysteries - Strange Artifacts, Fuente Magna - Rosetta Stone of Americas
Elementary Amerindian facts 101:

If it was found in Bolivia, it was not "Mayan"...
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Old November 15th, 2012, 11:51 AM   #23

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Lets get back on topic guys. If I want to read people arguing I can just hop on facebook
There's not much more to discuss. The article you linked to relies almost entirely upon the testimony of an infamous Afrocentric "scholar" who makes a living off of pretending to decipher things. Interestingly, he takes the step most of these theories don't by positing a reason for the alleged voyage across the sea, but his reason makes absolutely no sense. He claims Bolivia was a land the Sumerians went to to trade for tin, a valuable material for making bronze. However the Phoenicians (who not only came later but were also by far superior sailors to the Sumerians) simply went to Britain for tin if they needed to go far to get it. Britain was well known for being rich in tin in ancient times. Furthermore it's accessible by hugging the coast of temperate and mild-weathered Europe, but instead Clyde Winters proposes that the Sumerians took boats made from reed and animal skins over the entire Mediterranean, over the entire Atlantic, and around the infamously deadly Cape Horn to stop in one of the driest places on earth to get tin they could've gotten much closer and in a more hospitable place. Or if you want to use Zarin's hypothesis, the idea that they sailed through the Persian Gulf, over the Arabian Sea, over the entire Indian Ocean, and then over the entire Pacific Ocean, and down the coast of the Americas stopping again at one of the more inhospitable places to get tin. A voyage of years and years, without stopping for any extended amount of time once given that there's no evidence of their presence in India, Southeast Asia, East Asia, Oceania, North America, Central America, and most of South America. Just to get tin that an easy trip to Britain would've gotten them.

Further expanding on this idea, here's a map of ancient sources of tin:
Click the image to open in full size.
As you can see the closest major deposits to Mesopotamia, and indeed the very ones that the Phoenicians from the Levant used, are in Devon, Cornwall, Brittany, and Spain. The part of the world richest in tin is Southeast Asia. What Clyde Winters would have you believe is that they sailed (again, with primitive boats and less skill than the Vikings or Polynesians) to the other side of the world, from Mesopotamia across the rest of the Middle east, across entirety of Europe and Africa, across the entire Atlantic Ocean, and across an entire continent they were unaware of through harsh jungle terrain and even harsher deserts until they got to the other side of South America. Or by Zarin's hypothesis, across the entirety of the largest continent on earth, across the largest ocean on earth, down past all of North America, and halfway to the bottom of South America, to get at a source of tin smaller than what they had already passed in a more favorable (and much closer) location.

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Old November 16th, 2012, 09:05 AM   #24

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That's 1000 CE not BCE, so no Phoenicians.
Oops! Need to clean my glasses. Sorry. No Phoenicians for the monolith. However, even at 1000 CE that definitely occludes this artifact as a "hoax." Any explanation out there as to where the various script on it comes from? Or interpretations?
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Old November 16th, 2012, 09:31 AM   #25

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Clyde Winters being cited in the article should be a great big waring flag that what ever you are about to read is most likely complete bunk. He is a well known Afrocentrist propagandist who believes nearly every great civilization was founded by black African peoples. His academic background is in Education, he has zero credentials that would in any way make an authority on the Sumerians or Cuneiform.

Sumerians in Bolivia: Afrocentrism and the Potokia Monolith - JasonColavito.com

As for the “Fuente Magna” bowl, eveything about it screams hoax. It lacks provenance, it just appeared around 1958 having being apparently found at an unknown earlier time. No credible source has substantiated any of the claims about the bowl.
I approve of this post.
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Old November 16th, 2012, 09:43 AM   #26

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Is it so hard to believe that ancient man would cross the seas out of mere curiosity? Today we travel into space just to satisfy several curiosities. A lot of people that respond to my posts seem hung up on the idea that ancient man's reasoning and logic would be as ours is. I feel it would only link up in small ways. For instance, man has always obsessed with our origins. Hence all the creation myths. Ghe similarities between those myths intrigues me. I feel there can only be 3 possible reasons for the parallels. 1 ancient man had contact with each other, even on seperate continents. 2 they all originated from one theory (possibly the true origins of everything) or 3 ancient aliens. If anyone can think of other reasons please share
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Old November 16th, 2012, 10:05 AM   #27

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Is it so hard to believe that ancient man would cross the seas out of mere curiosity? Today we travel into space just to satisfy several curiosities. A lot of people that respond to my posts seem hung up on the idea that ancient man's reasoning and logic would be as ours is. I feel it would only link up in small ways. For instance, man has always obsessed with our origins. Hence all the creation myths. Ghe similarities between those myths intrigues me. I feel there can only be 3 possible reasons for the parallels. 1 ancient man had contact with each other, even on seperate continents. 2 they all originated from one theory (possibly the true origins of everything) or 3 ancient aliens. If anyone can think of other reasons please share
Coincidence. It's the simplest theory and the one with the most evidence backing it. Further, myths are far more different than people seem to believe. Please enlighten me, what is so similar between Old World and New World mythologies? Anyone who knows anything about these varying mythologies in detail knows that any two mythologies are only similar superficially, in that they use similar tropes. Tropes common to all human fiction. Yet one would not claim that The Water Margin has a similar source as The Canterbury Tales just because they might share similar tropes. So why should people believe that the Norse, Yoruba, Japanese, and Aztec religions all have the same source because they all have gods? Or at least, what the English language feels is best referred to as a god? This is the same sort of logical fallacy people use to insist dragons exist. The English language uses one word to describe many monsters from myths all over the planet, and people insist it must be the same thing because apparently modern English is the paramount language of truth now? But I digress, there really is nothing so similar between the varying myths of the world to suggest they all have the same source besides the inventiveness of the human mind.

As for the bit about exploring, ancient man's intelligence was just as ours is as well as their logic and reasoning. People don't go out into the unknown so far that they'd most likely die just because something might be out there. Most explorers had some idea where they were going, or else found it by accident. Columbus wasn't searching for new lands, he was searching for a known continent and even for the time period he was exceedingly stupid. The world was bigger than he thought it was, and most learned people knew it was so. The Greeks had figured out as much and medieval people didn't just throw ancient learnings out the window.

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Old November 16th, 2012, 10:15 AM   #28

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When I suggest similarities I refer not to the constructs but to similar names and events (even in those descendant from different linguistic family trees. Almost every culture tells of a great flood that wiped out most of humanity. A suggestion that this is hardwired in mans desire to explain kts origins doesnt sit well with me. And its not just the middle eastern religions that borrow from one another. Hawaiin American and oriental myths include flood stories. I dont see this as coincidence but rather as an actual historical event. (exagerated of course)
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Old November 16th, 2012, 10:18 AM   #29

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Is it so hard to believe that ancient man would cross the seas out of mere curiosity? Today we travel into space just to satisfy several curiosities. A lot of people that respond to my posts seem hung up on the idea that ancient man's reasoning and logic would be as ours is. I feel it would only link up in small ways. For instance, man has always obsessed with our origins. Hence all the creation myths. Ghe similarities between those myths intrigues me. I feel there can only be 3 possible reasons for the parallels. 1 ancient man had contact with each other, even on seperate continents. 2 they all originated from one theory (possibly the true origins of everything) or 3 ancient aliens. If anyone can think of other reasons please share
Humans are naturally curious. It is what drove mankind out of Africa to colonize the entire globe. To find out what was further up that river, around that bend in the ocean, what was on the other side of that high mountain or what lie on the other side of that horizon. And this has been the ongoing drive behind human exploration, daring and adventure from our species' inception.
There are those, who will only accept what Science or Archeology can undeniably demonstrate or prove. These are the die-hard conservative thinkers. And there are those who wildly speculate on very far-out conceptions. Those individuals, who have unbridled imaginations.
However, there is an in between view. A balanced one. One that realizes what is not only logical but also what was physically and actually possible among ancient human capabilities.
No one can deny that human populations have moved throughout the entire liveable land surface of this planet. No one can deny that all of these populations carried the mythos and many connections these peoples encountered as they traveled such great distances. No one can deny that many of these links may never have been broken, either. No one can deny that ancient man had the technologies and means to reach every land surface on Earth. Mainly, because it happened. So why doubt that it wasn't a continuous and ongoing process?
The main problem the conservatives have is they require direct and undeniable "proof." Where the highly creative just meander on in the realm of pure imagination. Both are extremes and everyone knows that the truth always exists between extremes. That the "truth" comes from balance. Plus, there are some archeological concepts that cannot be physically proven, but make total sense. Especially, in light of what is already readily apparent as not only possible, has actually happened or is highly likely. Moreover, some of these "escapades" into pure fantasy are not always wrong and some ideas accepted as "fact" do turn out to be fallacies with further evaluation, new technology and greater insight. We need both polarities to keep our ideas fresh and innovative, but it will be in between these two extremes that real knowledge will actually emerge.
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Old November 16th, 2012, 10:25 AM   #30

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When I suggest similarities I refer not to the constructs but to similar names and events (even in those descendant from different linguistic family trees. Almost every culture tells of a great flood that wiped out most of humanity. A suggestion that this is hardwired in mans desire to explain kts origins doesnt sit well with me. And its not just the middle eastern religions that borrow from one another. Hawaiin American and oriental myths include flood stories. I dont see this as coincidence but rather as an actual historical event. (exagerated of course)
A flood is a cataclysm common to all populated regions of earth, something people had to deal with regularly in ancient times. People generally lived by rivers and oceans as they were the best source of sustenance, but rivers can flood and destroy everything around them and this would be traumatic for the people living there. This is most notable with the Middle-Eastern religions that are dominant in the world, as they originally settled around the Tigris and Euphrates and the myths started by these Mesopotamians spread and possibly the source for stories like the ones found in the Bible. Hawaii is a volcanic island chain, of course they'd have flood stories. The most prominent American flood stories are from peoples by the Mississippi and Missouri rivers. And the Chinese were famous for settling river valleys that are still known for suffering cataclysmic floods. As I said, traumatic event common to all heavily settled regions of the globe. As for names, what similarities? I've never even heard this claim before, that many different mythologies had similar names.
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