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Old November 14th, 2012, 09:00 PM   #1

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Proto-Sumerian cuneiform found on Mayan bowl in S America


What do you think? Did the two cultures have common ancestors? Did they communicate with one another? Or maybe writing was given to them by a seperate source all together?this link may help... Atlantisbolivia.com/sumeria or
http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_8.htm

Last edited by joshuaaaronhodak; November 14th, 2012 at 10:17 PM. Reason: added link
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Old November 14th, 2012, 11:01 PM   #2

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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuaaaronhodak View Post
What do you think? Did the two cultures have common ancestors? Did they communicate with one another? Or maybe writing was given to them by a seperate source all together?this link may help... Atlantisbolivia.com/sumeria or
World Mysteries - Strange Artifacts, Fuente Magna - Rosetta Stone of Americas
Did you see this on Ancient Aliens?
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Old November 14th, 2012, 11:15 PM   #3

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ancient aliens


Ive actually seen the show but must have missed that episode. I found this info researching th he proto language when trying to find enough similarities to suggest a common ancestor language
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Old November 15th, 2012, 02:06 AM   #4

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The main point is to determine if the engraved cuneiform symbols are original [or added in modern time ... before the object arrived in the hands of the experts]. But the area where these signs are doesn't show clues of modification. Or it was empty in the original or the signs are original ...

As for I can get around, the usage of that writing system is not that bad, according to Alberto Marini and Clyde Winters it's possible to suppose an acceptable translation.

  1. Pa ge gi - Girls take an oath to act justly (this) place
  2. Mi lu du - (This is) a favorable oracle of the people
  3. I mi ki - Send forth a just divine decree
  4. me su du - The charm (is) full of Good
  5. Nia po - The (Goddess) Nia is pure
  6. Pa - Take an oath
  7. Mash - The Diviner
  8. Nia mi - The divine decree of Nia
  9. Du lu gi - to surround the people with Goodness
  10. Ka me lu - Value the people's oracle
  11. Zi - The soul
  12. Nan na pa-I - appear as a witness to the Good
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Old November 15th, 2012, 03:43 AM   #5

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The Maya did not live in Bolivia, or any part of South America. Wrong continent. And it is likely this bowl is a hoax. There is no evidence to suggest Mesopotamians had the ability to cross the Atlantic Ocean. There doesn't even exist much evidence that they had a lot of coastal settlements as well. And this theory would have to suppose that they not only crossed the Mediterranean or the Arabian Sea in their primitive little boats, but that they also used their same boats to travel for months if not years over open ocean across the entirety of the Atlantic, and even more ludicrously made the journey past Cape Horn alive, a passage known to be deadly for large ships that are actually able to handle oceans rather than tiny boats made from animal skins, and then stop only in Bolivia, spending most of their time in a harsh desert environment. There's no logic or trustworthy evidence to support such assertions. The fact that the theorists can't get the identity of the natives right certainly doesn't help.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 03:54 AM   #6

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hresvelgr View Post
The Maya did not live in Bolivia, or any part of South America. Wrong continent. And it is likely this bowl is a hoax. There is no evidence to suggest Mesopotamians had the ability to cross the Atlantic Ocean. There doesn't even exist much evidence that they had a lot of coastal settlements as well. And this theory would have to suppose that they not only crossed the Mediterranean or the Arabian Sea in their primitive little boats, but that they also used their same boats to travel for months if not years over open ocean across the entirety of the Atlantic, and even more ludicrously made the journey past Cape Horn alive, a passage known to be deadly for large ships that are actually able to handle oceans rather than tiny boats made from animal skins, and then stop only in Bolivia, spending most of their time in a harsh desert environment. There's no logic or trustworthy evidence to support such assertions. The fact that the theorists can't get the identity of the natives right certainly doesn't help.
The hoax is very probably the solution of this "mystery" [Occam's razor law would suggest this ...].

Farmers found this object and I haven't found archaeological relations of the site where they discover the find. May be I'm not able to find it [my fault]. Anyway without archaeological relations about the context of the discovery no one can confirm the origin of the object. And this matter of fact is decisive, so far, to leave the "Fuente Bowl" in the realm of the "OOPARTS".
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Old November 15th, 2012, 09:30 AM   #7

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Hresvelgr is correct. I misworded my headline Mayan when Inca should have been in its stead. Thanks for pointing that out.
Fuente Magna (The Rosetta Stone Of The Americas)
This link will address some of the ocean faring details as well as a little know theory that the Sumerians actually originated in south America as opposed to traveling there. Sumerians were said to have arrived in the area as a sea faring people. And some speculate that they were the ones known as Atlanteans. I dont know if im readt to make that leap but it is definitely within the sphere of possibility
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Old November 15th, 2012, 09:38 AM   #8

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hresvelgr View Post
The Maya did not live in Bolivia, or any part of South America. Wrong continent. And it is likely this bowl is a hoax. There is no evidence to suggest Mesopotamians had the ability to cross the Atlantic Ocean. There doesn't even exist much evidence that they had a lot of coastal settlements as well. And this theory would have to suppose that they not only crossed the Mediterranean or the Arabian Sea in their primitive little boats, but that they also used their same boats to travel for months if not years over open ocean across the entirety of the Atlantic, and even more ludicrously made the journey past Cape Horn alive, a passage known to be deadly for large ships that are actually able to handle oceans rather than tiny boats made from animal skins, and then stop only in Bolivia, spending most of their time in a harsh desert environment. There's no logic or trustworthy evidence to support such assertions. The fact that the theorists can't get the identity of the natives right certainly doesn't help.
Why do some people, who do not want to accept that there may have been many contacts among ancient peoples, automatically assume something is a "hoax?" Simply because they cannot "explain" its' existence.
There is nothing about this piece or any of the others discovered with it that suggest they are hoaxes. Not yet at least. There is a monolith, a bowl and several other objects with these same cuneiform-semitic style scripts on them. Moreover, we do not currently have any way to determine who made these images and why. The route by which they came to La Paz (in Bolivia) can also not yet be determined. 3-4000 years BCE there could have been Phoenician contact with Atlantic side communities and some of those traders may have moved up the Amazon. Or these objects may have been purposely moved inland for some unexplained reason. Possibly because of tribal warfare. Moved mainly to protect them. The monolith and certain images on the bowls resonate the style of Teohuanaco near Lake Titicaca also in Bolivia.
Thor Heyerdahl has adequately demonstrated how ancient Egyptians could have crossed the Atlantic directly in their reed structured boats. And such boats were never designed for such long distance travel. How much more easily could the Phoenicians or any of the other "boat peoples" of the Mediterranean have accomplished this? However, travel between the Old and New World could have also been conducted by sailing along the contiguous coasts of both worlds, including along the ice sheets of the north. Although I doubt this northern route occurred in this particular case.
The Mediterranean sea peoples may have known about the same trade winds the Spanish had discovered in their movement to the New World. But more than likely, a hurricane could have blown several Phoenician or Semitic sailing ships to the Atlantic side of the New World. Such involuntary transients, whomever they were or where from would not have even known where they were and recorded these several languages on pottery or stone in case someone eventually came after them. As a record of their presence. Something not unusual for any transplanted humans to do.
Or less likely but not impossible, Sumerian ships could have known how to reach South America via the western side of the two continents. Via an Asian route. Sumeria did border the Persian Gulf (which is directly connected to the Pacific not the Mediterranean).
If adequate validation can be found for these objects to have existed 3-4000 years BCE, then it demonstrates quite clearly how little we know of ancient man's capabilities and the vast gap in our real awareness of human history and human contact.
What I would find more interesting is the translation of these various writings. If that is even currently feasible. What do these scripts actually say?
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Old November 15th, 2012, 09:45 AM   #9

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Hresvelgr is correct. I misworded my headline Mayan when Inca should have been in its stead. Thanks for pointing that out.
Fuente Magna (The Rosetta Stone Of The Americas)
This link will address some of the ocean faring details as well as a little know theory that the Sumerians actually originated in south America as opposed to traveling there. Sumerians were said to have arrived in the area as a sea faring people. And some speculate that they were the ones known as Atlanteans. I dont know if im readt to make that leap but it is definitely within the sphere of possibility
Incan is still incorrect. Inca was properly the title of the ruler of the Tawantinsuya, the political entity known to most as the Inca Empire. There was no ethnic group called Incans however, the dominant tribe of the empire was the Quechua. However the Quechua had little presence in Bolivia, the dominant people there being Aymara. Moreover, neither the Quechua or the Aymara or any other South American tribe or ethnic group has any similarities with the Sumerians. Although the Sumerian language is still classed as a language isolate, there are still no similarities between it and the South American languages. And there are no physical resemblances between South Americans and Sumerians besides a predominance of dark hair, which most people in the world share. Sumerian men, like other Mesopotamians, often had massive beards that are not present among Native-Americans. If the Sumerians originated in South America, then you'd assume their language would be related and that they'd have a Native-American appearance, but neither one is the case. Furthermore, in regards to the bowl itself as well as the entire theory, the idea that Sumerian cuneiform was used in ancient South America can be dismissed by the complete and utter lack of any writing at all in the Pre-Columbian era for the entire continent. If the only example of Pre-Columbian writing in all of South America is from a single example using a script belonging to an exceedingly ancient people whose writing never expanded outside the Middle-East, then it can surely be dismissed as a hoax leaving the theory of South American Sumerians with absolutely no evidence.

@Zarin: Not this malarkey again. Phoenician civilization did not exist in 3-4000 BC. Thor Heyerdahl's expeditions are more an achievement in science than in archaeology as showing that something might've been possible is not at all the same as showing that it actually happened. If the Egyptians were crossing the ocean you'd think there'd be more signs of Egyptian presence west of Libya. And your idea about Sumerians taking an Asian route deconstructs itself. If they traveled all across the entire goddamn world except Africa and Europe, then how come the only alleged proof of their journey is a dubious bowl in Bolivia? I'll be honest, I'm sick of this charade. I've come to accept that every time a fantastical claim is made, you'll come along to defend it because there's no way Native-Americans could've made any achievements on their own without literally every culture from the Old World handing things to them (at least that's the vibe you give out), and you always do so by insisting that mainstream archaeologists are either too incompetent or dishonest to release the truth that these New Age hippies who rant about leylines and spiritual awareness can find with no experience and no real qualifications because while you think scientists can lie, apparently nobody else can. It's a tiresome game we play and there's no point in it. I know this sounds extremely harsh but this really needs to be deconstructed and shown for what it really is, an obsession with hype.

And another nail in the coffin for all these wild theories is that they all lack motivation. Human beings don't get together in the numbers you suggest and do these monumentally difficult (and often completely impossible) things just because. The conquest of the New World happened when it did because Europe had become extremely packed and there was a lot of impetus for exploration to find land and resources to bring riches to these burgeoning empires as said resources weren't immediately available in surrounding areas, and if they were they were already warring for them at the same time. The Norse found America when they did because the explorers were from a settlement in a hostile land founded by outlaws and the chance of finding a warmer land that had far more trees than Greenland was of extreme importance. However there exists absolutely no reason (as well as no proof) for Phoenicians or Egyptians or Sumerians to have gone to the New World. For starters, they'd have had no idea of its existence. People don't sail out for months into open ocean just because. Columbus only found the New World because he was a massive idiot who underestimated the size of the earth despite mainstream scientists of that time having an accurate estimation of it. The Phoenicians were the widest ranging sailors of all the peoples you mentioned, and yet the limit of their exploration was Britain, possibly Scandinavia, both lands easily accessible via coastal sailing and having resources they'd know and care about. Egypt had plenty of room to expand down south and west with plenty of gold and other things of interest to them. Same story with Sumeria. So why on earth would they go off gallivanting unprepared sailing for months at a time in search of a region they had no idea of? Again, your theories lack a logical explanation as well as actual substantial evidence. And your lack of knowledge on the peoples you discuss shows when you get the timeline of their existence wrong by thousands of years.

Last edited by Hresvelgr; November 15th, 2012 at 10:14 AM.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 10:15 AM   #10

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Quote:
@Zarin: Not this malarkey again. Phoenician civilization did not exist in 3-4000 BC.
Of course Phoenicians did not exist in 3-4000 BCE, but the Sumerians and Mediterranean boat peoples did. However, this doesn't occlude that when the Phoenicians did exist they did not make contact with the New World. So much for your blatant use of "malarkey." Something you just love to blather about in your posts. A blank expression you often use when you have no real rebuttal.
Quote:
Thor Heyerdahl's expeditions are more an achievement in science than in archaeology as showing that something might've been possible is not at all the same as showing that it actually happened.
If something is demonstrated as "possible" than it actually was.
Quote:
If the Egyptians were crossing the ocean you'd think there'd be more signs of Egyptian presence west of Libya.
Signs only exist if they remain. And lost sailors or misguided ships do not normally leave signs.
Quote:
And your idea about Sumerians taking an Asian route deconstructs itself. If they traveled all across the entire goddamn world except Africa and Europe, then how come the only alleged proof of their journey is a dubious bowl in Bolivia?
It was a logical supposition as Sumeria is on the same body of water that includes the Pacific directly. And there are numerous scenarios as to how Sumerian writing might have reached the Western side of South America. It never occurred to you that there may have been Sumerian scholars, investigators or sailors on someone else's ships.
[quote]
Quote:
I'll be honest, I'm sick of this charade. I've come to accept that every time a fantastical claim is made, you'll come along to defend it because there's no way Native-Americans could've made any achievements on their own without literally every culture from the Old World handing things to them (at least that's the vibe you give out), and you always do so by insisting that mainstream archaeologists are either too incompetent or dishonest to release the truth that these New Age hippies who rant about leylines and spiritual awareness can find with no experience and no real qualifications because while you think scientists can lie, apparently nobody else can. It's a tiresome game we play and there's no point in it. I know this sounds extremely harsh but this really needs to be deconstructed and shown for what it really is, an obsession with hype.[/QUOTE
I'm not going to comment on what is obviously a very personal rant. And has nothing to do with what was actually posted in this particular thread.

Last edited by Zarin; November 15th, 2012 at 10:21 AM.
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