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Old November 24th, 2012, 05:52 AM   #11

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Pick the Iliad apart all you like, the question remains: what on earth would the Greeks be DOING in England? The theory makes no sense on the face of it.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 06:07 AM   #12

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Why, they were going to fetch tin from Cornwall and took the wrong turning!
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Old November 24th, 2012, 01:39 PM   #13

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Well, in Italy there is who [Felice Vinci, his work had translated in English as "Homer in the Baltic"] thinks that Troy was in Scandinavia, so ...
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Old November 24th, 2012, 01:57 PM   #14

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And Shakespeare came from Sicily of course!
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Old November 24th, 2012, 02:57 PM   #15

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Callisto View Post
Pick the Iliad apart all you like, the question remains: what on earth would the Greeks be DOING in England? The theory makes no sense on the face of it.
They were there for the climate, of course.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 04:31 PM   #16

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Callisto View Post
Pick the Iliad apart all you like, the question remains: what on earth would the Greeks be DOING in England? The theory makes no sense on the face of it.
Agamemnon: Hello! Hello!
Briton: Hello? Who is it?
Agamemnon: It is King Agamemnon, and these are my warriors. Go and tell King Priam that we have come to take back Helen of Sparta! If he values his life, he will give her up peacefully!
Briton: Well, I'll go and tell him, but I don't think he'll be very keen. See, there's no one named Helen here.
Agamemnon: What?
Odysseus: He says she isn't there!
Agamemnon: Are you sure she isn't there?
Briton: Oh, I'm sure. (turns to the other Britons hiding behind the wall) I told them she isn't here! (they laugh)
Agamemnon: Well, uh...can we come in and have a look?
Briton: Of course not!
Agamemnon: We are proud Greeks and demand you let us in, in the name of Zeus!
Briton: Greeks?
Agamemnon: Yes.
Briton: What are you doing in England?!
Agamemnon: Mind your own business!
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Old November 25th, 2012, 06:18 AM   #17

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So in summing up, the original houses do not match Mycenaean houses or Classical Hellenic houses, but houses from Homer's "dark age"
Burial customs did not match Mycenean customs or Classical Hellenic customs, but customs in Homers "dark ages".
The headhunting practice did not match Mycenean practice or Hellenic practice, but a Homeric "dark ages" practice.
The characters in the Iliad use chariots in warfare. The classical Hellenes did not use chariots in warfare.

Notice that the houses, burial customs, head hunting, and use of chariots in warfare all match the customs of the urnfield people of northern Europe between 1200 and 700 BC. , not the customs of the classical Hellenes. I think Iman Wilkens was correct that the Iliad originated from a celtic story.
The problem here is that it was common practice to depict the tales of ones ancestors as modern. Just as the medieval scholars depicted Alexander the Great as a medieval knight and Josephus as a medieval nobleman, the Hellenistic Greeks depicted the combatants of Troy as hoplites and their ships as triremes.

Alexander Vs Porus. (As depicted by a medieval scribe)
Click the image to open in full size.And Josephus.Click the image to open in full size.

We must not take the classical Greeks interpretation of their tales too literally but rather examine the source material.
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Old November 25th, 2012, 07:08 AM   #18

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I would say it took place in Greece because the people who fought in the Trojan war were Greek and they would have to get past Celtic tribes and by the time they would have reached England they would probally be weeker
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Old November 25th, 2012, 07:17 AM   #19

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Quote:
Originally Posted by oshron View Post
Agamemnon: Hello! Hello!
Briton: Hello? Who is it?
Agamemnon: It is King Agamemnon, and these are my warriors. Go and tell King Priam that we have come to take back Helen of Sparta! If he values his life, he will give her up peacefully!
Briton: Well, I'll go and tell him, but I don't think he'll be very keen. See, there's no one named Helen here.
Agamemnon: What?
Odysseus: He says she isn't there!
Agamemnon: Are you sure she isn't there?
Briton: Oh, I'm sure. (turns to the other Britons hiding behind the wall) I told them she isn't here! (they laugh)
Agamemnon: Well, uh...can we come in and have a look?
Briton: Of course not!
Agamemnon: We are proud Greeks and demand you let us in, in the name of Zeus!
Briton: Greeks?
Agamemnon: Yes.
Briton: What are you doing in England?!
Agamemnon: Mind your own business!



And where was Helen, most likely she was shopping in ARGOS
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Old December 4th, 2012, 01:59 PM   #20
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Note that the original one room hall houses,
the original religious pracitice of worshiping outside, not in temples,
the original funeral custom of cremation and creating a mound to bury heroes,
the original practices of headhunting and fighting from chariots ,
are in the Iliad, hidden under layers of additions.

These cutsoms were not practiced by Myceneans or by classical Hellenes,
but were practiced by celts between 1200 and 700 BC.

The original characters were headhunting celts. The story was appropriated by the
Greeks because they thought it represented a war between Hellenes and Asiatics.

I gave you a reference earlier, "The rise of the greek epic", which is well worth reading- especially the section starting around page 170.

The classical Helenes mistakenly thought the story of the Iliad described a war of Greeks versus Asiatics, and treated the Iliad and Odyssey as patriotic tomes.
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