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Old November 16th, 2012, 04:53 PM   #21
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Many of those are made up. Such as the first link pretending everyone believe in reptilian supermen gods.

That's just straight-up dishonest. The sun and moon obviously exist. They are hanging up in the sky every day in plain view. The idea that ancient people carved or drew depictions of celestial bodies everyone would know about and care about takes much less of a leap of logic than pretending they are depictions of a phenomenon that hasn't been proven to be real and that the ancients never mentioned otherwise.
well, of course they exist. I'm not disputing that. But that does not mean that is what they intended to draw. Early man was capable of abstract thought. Perhaps they are only designs. And how would you explain the depictions of these objects that have figures that appear to be 'controling' or 'riding' them? I'm not debating alien existance here....I'm only debating the old depictions of what could be heavenly bodies or something stranger
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Old November 16th, 2012, 04:56 PM   #22
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it is important for people with extreme beliefs to not try to discredit others for not believing the same things. The opposite is equally important
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Old November 16th, 2012, 05:19 PM   #23

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well, of course they exist. I'm not disputing that. But that does not mean that is what they intended to draw. Early man was capable of abstract thought. Perhaps they are only designs. And how would you explain the depictions of these objects that have figures that appear to be 'controling' or 'riding' them? I'm not debating alien existance here....I'm only debating the old depictions of what could be heavenly bodies or something stranger
The problem is context. People arguing for representations of aliens are arguing from a purely modern Western perspective and never seem to be able to see things any other way. Aliens as most people of this sort believe in are a modern pop-culture thing that has no more real scientific basis than the sort of things past people believed in like homonculi and ghosts and such. And aliens themselves along with the whole subject of ufology is very western. IIRC the majority of UFO sightings seem to take place in English or German speaking countries, along with the rest of western Europe America being the number one location. And yet even more highly and densely populated countries like China have very little sightings. Evidence would suggest it's a rather cultural thing. Therefore the alien believers are merely viewing everything through a narrow window that's not just biased by their own subculture but also viewed from a very Eurocentric/Western viewpoint that fails to take into account the context with which the ancients had when making these depictions.
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Old November 16th, 2012, 08:01 PM   #24

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Forget about Von Daniken for this discussion. He took it quite a bit too far. But let's discuss the possibility of alien visits regardless of claims by some that aliens were responsible for human achievements. I feel it is very plausible. In the search for extra-solar planets some astronomists contend that there may be more planets than stars in the universe. Having this knowledge there are still so many rational people who are arrogant enough to believe that earth is the only harborer of life. I contend that we will be capable of inter-stellar travel at some point in the future. So, why not some alien race that is potentially much older than ourselves
There is no logical reason to assume that aliens do not exist. We must believe so, because we know that at least one "seemingly intelligent" species has already evolved in this Universe. Which adds probability credence to the great likelihood of many others also having evolved on the trillions of bodies within just our own Galaxy. And some may be far older than us. Especially since the universe is guesstimated to be at least 10 billion years older than our own solar system.
However, what it all comes down to is the number of intelligent species that may have evolved in our Galaxy and the ratio of survivability within this number. If we find life on any other bodies within this solar system, such information will greatly increase the probability for intelligent life elsewhere. If we find many bodies within this solar system with life on them and under such diverse conditions, then we can assume that the Universe is very fecund.
It is not outside of reasonable contention to assume that an intelligent species (which evolved long before us) may have researched and even possibly walked on the bodies of this solar system. Mainly to do just as we are now doing...to investigate and categorize this solar system. Possibly these extra-terrestrials may have noted that life has already begun its evolutionary path here on Earth and potential other bodies in this solar system.
Which begs the question as to why they would spend resources to come here but not remain? Obviously they themselves may never have actually set foot upon Earth, but their investigatory devices might very well have. Moreover, they may send periodic exploration devices to see how everything is going here.
One has to consider the economic and physical realities of exploring every single body in just this galaxy alone. Every human being currently alive has 10-15 solar systems each to explore in this Galaxy of 100 billion stars. Not to mention all the planets, asteroids, dwarf planets and moons each one of these solar systems may contain. You could spend an entire lifetime merely exploring one solar system and never fully exploring it all.
Our solar system is quite far out on one of the spiral arms of the Milky Way Galaxy. Whatever aliens may exists simply have not found the time or wherewithal to explore and colonize this obscure system. Even if they could.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 06:18 AM   #25

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to be fair, saying that they are sun/moon depictions is no less presumptious than saying they're space craft. But I agree that one should not commit to a theory until it is proven in a reasonable manner. Before such (joshua_ghostexorcist) you should remain open to all possibilities. Also bear in mind that discussions like this one help lead us to the truth.
It is in no way presumptuous. Who do you think knows more about the context of the pictures, religious art historians or UFO conspiracy theorists? I'm all for open-mindedness, but ignoring the opinions of experts just because someone wants ancient aliens to be real is just silly.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 07:16 AM   #26

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Interstellar voyagers by human artifacts has already begun (Voyager, Pioneer). but takes tens of thousands of years, so they are in a way not very "relevant". If similar artifacts from elsewhere exist in this solar system they would be extremely hard to detect.
One might be able to create a 'tube' or 'wormhole' to act like a shortcut between one side of our galaxy to the other if one could warp space-time by a sufficient degree. It could enable one to cross from one side of the galaxy to the other and come back while one's friends are still alive. This has been seriously suggested as potentially within the capabilities of a future civilisation.

Last edited by Dreamhunter; November 17th, 2012 at 07:25 AM.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 07:34 AM   #27

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Statistically there is a certain possibility that some forms of life exist on other planets or satellites somewhere in the space.

There are clues about this, like prebiotic chemistry on other space bodies [the moon Titan for example] and the presence of water.

Anyway an intelligent species is a well different matter. When the Homo Sapiens appeared on Earth life here existed since many millions of years ago. This limits a lot the "window" of contemporary existence of two intelligent species. On the base of the only available example, it takes hundreds of millions of years for a biosphere to develop an intelligent species.

This is among the reasons why the Drake equation gives a little result instead of a predictable enormous number.

In fact the point is not how many intelligent species can have been existing in the galaxy in general, but how many exist now.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 08:12 AM   #28

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One might be able to create a 'tube' or 'wormhole' to act like a shortcut between one side of our galaxy to the other if one could warp space-time by a sufficient degree. It could enable one to cross from one side of the galaxy to the other and come back while one's friends are still alive. This has been seriously suggested as potentially within the capabilities of a future civilisation.
There are several concepts now being explored for FTLT (Faster than Light Travel). Moving space and not mass, Time/Space bubbles, subspace access, Time manipulation and the potential discovery of an anti-graviton-a particle that eliminates or negates gravity.
We simply do not remotely understand what "space" is and how it may be manipulated. The next frontier may very well come from the serious exploration into what space actually is. How it expands and why. We don't even know why light travels at the speed it does and indications are beginning to appear that this speed "limit" does not actually exist. And under certain conditions can be speeded up. How about slowing it down?
The problem with "wormholes" is creating and controlling one. Not to mention directing its terminus to the point one actually wishes to go. And doing this with a matter of specific accuracy.There have been ideas suggested that such a transit system may already exist and is either in use or has been used previously by advanced extra-terrestrials. There is always the real possibility that mankind will discover ways to manipulate dimensionalitiy. Removing himself from all constraints created by the 4 dimensions of Space/Time.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 08:18 AM   #29
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so how long do do you think it will take us to make "wormholes" and spaceships that can travel with speed of light??? guess we will have to wait! why do we always think aliens as "more powerful" and stuff???(just curous)
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Old November 17th, 2012, 11:05 AM   #30
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so how long do do you think it will take us to make "wormholes" and spaceships that can travel with speed of light??? guess we will have to wait! why do we always think aliens as "more powerful" and stuff???(just curous)
Simply because (if capable of visiting us) they have become capable of practical inter-stellar travel. If a civilization can do that they must be ahead of us on tech advancement
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