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Old November 17th, 2012, 02:27 PM   #31

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I agree. As a comparison, hunting rifles and shotguns are common in rural Norway, which is where most people lived at them time of WW2. In addition there was general conscription which meant almost every man had military experience and could be called up for war. But when Nazi Germany invaded, no one reached for their guns. Only the men who were already in uniform put up a fight - and in most cases a rather half-hearted fight too.

It took a few years for the resistance to get things going. And that was also only minor isolated incidents and by no way a partisan or guerilla warfare.
There are aspects of the American culture that we need to take into consideration. From its origins, it was founded upon rebellion and the icons reflect that. We see the cowboy of the wild west, the rebel biker, the disobedient soldier, the wild youth... All this stems from the cultural foundation. Throughout the US in the 1940s, there were biker gangs at odds with one another, who were rebellious towards society yet took great pride in being American. When faced with common enemies, these groups tended to join forces. This is part of the reason why the British couldn't control America even though they could conquer and control much of the world. 9/11 was a shock to a nation which had become too comfortable. Today the attitude is somewhat different, just as Pearl Harbor was a shock that made attitudes across the nation change. We can only speculate about this, but I stand confident in my opinion.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 02:43 PM   #32

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I don't mean to be hyper-critical ERroR, but I have multiple problems with the OP.
I only have one, it's called logistics.
The Japanese were at their logistical limit merely launching a raid on Pearl Harbor, invading the west coast of the USA is so outside of their capabilities that any scenario for this is totally ludicrous.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 03:04 PM   #33

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If the aircraft carrier fleet hadn't been destroyed at Midway and Hawaii captured, as well as China, South-East Asia and most of the Pacific secured, then perhaps Japan could have captured parts of the West Coast.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 12:23 PM   #34

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You chaps seem to be getting the wrong end of the stick.

I'm not suggesting a massive invasion with the intent to secure the USA with an army and a supply line extending across the Pacific from Japan, of course that notion is absurd. I'm talking about 1 or 2 divisions which could rely on existing fuel and munitions captured from the Western coast of the USA. The cities would have had ample supply of petrol and probably a lot of spare fire arms too. What's to stop the Japanese landing a division just to cause chaos? They were perfectly capable of flying kamikaze aircraft into ships and even using the Yamamoto for a final mission. Why not have a kamikaze IJA division to land on the West coast? It would have been a propaganda victory on par with the Doolittle Raids.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 12:44 PM   #35

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How far would the Japanese have been able to get if they invaded California in WW2? What if they just landed a division or two and let them go on the rampage? Bearing in mind that Rommel was able to do a great deal of damage in North Africa with a small force, would the Japanese have been able to do the same thing in similar desert terrain? Would they have been able to acquire food/petrol from the USA mainland and civilian cars/guns and avoid the need for replenishment via sea? This is also before the massive US mobilisation so would the regular US Army be able to handle such an invasion?

I spose the acquisition of certain cities would have been useful, but I doubt the Japanese would care so much for civilian welfare so perhaps they'd just carpet bomb them or simply go around instead?

There's also not much in the way of defences when you get past California as there's only a small population in the Western and central states. Would they have been able to get through to Las Vegas or Salt Lake City, maybe even Chicago? It would be interesting to see the gangster mobs reaction to the IJA, perhaps they'd get in a gunfight? Gangsters in fedora hats and tommy guns vs the Japanese army would be an interesting scenario.

Naturally it would be wise to avoid Texas and the south

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Are you kidding? There would have been a gun behind every tree.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 12:53 PM   #36
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While the Japane4se could never land a force to seriously threaten the US, they might have been able to land a large commando force whose job would be to sabotage the US war effort, by blowing up bridges and trains, collasping mines, blowing up factories, that sort of thing. If they could have landed a large commando force like that, they could have forced the US to divert forces to root them out.

I suspect that scenario was a factor in why all the Japanese on the West coast were rounded up and put in camps, to eliminate any potential risk of these hypothetical saboteurs from blending in with the native Japanese population. A rather remote risk, but still possible.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 02:55 PM   #37

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Are you kidding? There would have been a gun behind every tree.
Good thing the Japanese had guns! otherwise they would have been in real trouble!

Oh and just for the tree scenario I suppose it would be best to invade Texas
Click the image to open in full size.

So TJ you might want to start by learning to say ''konichiwa Shishou''
means: hello master
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Old November 18th, 2012, 03:10 PM   #38

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Regardless of the actual possiblity of a Japanese forcce being able to land and conduct operations on the US mainland, had such a thing occurred, the civilian population would have been as docile and helpless as any other that has suffered invasion. There would have been individual acts of resistance but in the main the people would have simply kept their heads down and tried to get on with life. A resistance would have appered eventually, but these things take time to organise. The idea of citizens behind every tree spontaneously taking on an invading army with shotguns and hunting rifles is a fantasy.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 03:45 PM   #39

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Regardless of the actual possiblity of a Japanese forcce being able to land and conduct operations on the US mainland, had such a thing occurred, the civilian population would have been as docile and helpless as any other that has suffered invasion. There would have been individual acts of resistance but in the main the people would have simply kept their heads down and tried to get on with life. A resistance would have appered eventually, but these things take time to organise. The idea of citizens behind every tree spontaneously taking on an invading army with shotguns and hunting rifles is a fantasy.

Let's not let nationalism and patriotism get in the way of reality

Same thing would have happened if the Germans had taken London tbh, when someone has a machine gun pointing at your family you tend to weigh the consequences.

Fortunately something as awful as a Japanese invasion of the US or Australia never happened, but if a division or so were sent on a one way mission to create havoc I wonder how far they'd get? The USA wasn't mobilised in 1941, what would have happened if some troop transports landed on a remote beach in California at the same time as the attack on Pearl Harbour?
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Old November 18th, 2012, 04:45 PM   #40

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A Kamikaze division size force of armour/mechanised infantry landing relatively unopposed and then using the excellent US road system to move rapidly, capturing food and fuel on the way could cause a lot of mayhem, but probably relatively little serious physical damage. I think the fear and panic such a force created would be out of all proportion to any actual damage they could inflict.
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