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Old December 5th, 2012, 05:04 AM   #21

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Joined: Jan 2010
From: Latvia
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Originally Posted by Koba View Post
J Arch Getty's book on the Great Purge puts to rest this question- the simple fact is, Stalin was not an omnipotent being and could not be aware of everything that was going on in the country. The NKVD was a completely closed organization, and the fact that it operated using less than rigorous techniques of justice was not known immediately.

Stalin was not responsible for executing millions of his own nationals. Where is the evidence for this? The amount executed for "anti-state" crimes during the Stalin period was slightly under 690,000, as I've posted in other threads on the subject.
What I find amazing is that you give tribute to Stalin for economic achievements even tho "he was not an omnipotent being and could not be aware of everything that was going on in the country". While at the same time put a guilt for his crimes on NKVD alone.

So how it is Koba? Did Stalin held a highest power in USSR or not?
Does it work the same in Russia now? Can FSB torture and murder "slightly under 690,000" Russian citizens in a manner that Mr.Putin remains in blissful ignorance about it?
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Old December 6th, 2012, 08:30 PM   #22

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Originally Posted by mansamusa View Post
Koba you seem learned enough on the subject.I would really like to know how and where the money came from to bring about such an impressive mobilization of resources in the Soviet Union. Are you able to provide us with a detailed account of its monetary system.
It was done through mass enthusiasm by the population. Talk to people who lived in that time and they will tell you people volunteered and worked excess hours not out of monetary gain, but out of sincere belief in the ideology. People had an almost religious feeling of patriotism- they thought the USSR and Communism was the salvation of mankind. I will not lie and say living standards were especially high- people often lived in crowded rooms and did not have more than a few pairs of clothes and shoes. But material poverty was balanced out by intellectual wealth- people discussed history, philosophy, amongst each other, even regular workers.

From Alexander Zinoviev, a brilliant Soviet scientists and dissident expelled from the USSR during Brezhnev for criticizing Brezhnev-era inertia and stagnation, writing a very funny absurdist book about a city called "Ibansk", or "****town", where mediocrity and laziness are the hallmarks of society.

Click the image to open in full size.

"For me and my peers liberation from centuries-long slavery had a tremendous significance. We lived through a lot of things: horrific living conditions, arrests and hardship of the war. And yet, I would not trade my life in those days for any other life. Many millions of my peers in those days felt free and realized they were Citizens with a capital C. We gained tremendous knowledge; the entire country was studying. In those days Russia transitioned from the most illiterate into the most educated country. We were given access to the highest cultural achievements. Talehis was our compensation for the poverty of our daily living. Our pants were ripped and patched, we wore no ties, but in our heads we carried something, which to us meant more than any treasures of the material world."

"The Russians attempted to create a system of higher values, superior to the ones they called petty bourgeois and low. Among these values are moral and spiritual perfectionism, serving the collective, self-sacrifice in the name of the society, self-restriction and others. Many sincere followers of such system of values appeared. Thanks to them many historic heroic acts were accomplished and unprecedented results were achieved. A layer of educated and created personalities was formed who lived in material poverty, but read, thought, discussed and wrote. They did not strive for fame or career. They were satisfied with the reputation within their immediate circle.

Such true communist was my uncle. During the civil war he was a commissar of a military division, later – a party worker. While holding these responsible positions, all his life him and his family lived in one room and never asked for an apartment. All his life he wore one trench coat. My oldest brother was the same. He and his wife were given a tiny little apartment only when he became the head of a factory and a regional Soviet deputy. There were many people like them. I think our country survived mainly because there were such people"

People felt pride and self-confidence. Many innocents suffered, but they were a small minority.

I don't know much about the monetary system.
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