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Old December 11th, 2012, 05:37 AM   #21

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And, I'll be honest, AAT is based almost entirely on circumstancial evidence and requires a great deal of faith....Hmmmm, that parallels in a very interesting way with every religion that has ever been followed. And if you ask me alien intervention is a little easier to swallow than a 'being' that has always been (older than the universe itself), is omnipitent, omnipresent, and can create something out of nothing by merely willing it to be.....a lot of people like to look down on the ancient astronaut theorists but they should probably examine their own religious beliefs scentifically before they ridicule.
I agree with you entirely here, although the conclusions I would draw from this observation are rather different ...
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Old December 11th, 2012, 05:49 AM   #22

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Yes I get the rationale ... my point was that we don't know how astronomically unlikely the circumstances were which led to life. I'll ask the ninjas next time they visit my space-time.
We have a general idea of the conditions. Planets have to be in what's known as the Habitable Zone of a star (the "Goldilocks zone", where it isn't too hot or too cold for liquid water), have to be sufficiently removed from phenomena such as supernovae that could wipe out budding life and other gravitational perturbations that might send asteroids and comets in to the planet's orbit on a regular basis, and the planet should be rocky - at least to support life similar to our own.

As our technology has improved, we have spotted a number of planets that inhabit the HZ, and recently, we have even spotted rocky "super-Earths" that match criteria. We're discovering that such planets aren't rare at all, at least not within our immediate neighbourhood.

The odds against life don't seem to me to be so high. There must be life out there, but whether it's close enough in space or time for us to interact with... that, after all, is the basis of the Fermi Paradox.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 06:05 AM   #23

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Personally I'd agree that the odds must be greatly in favour of ET life, but it's based on nothing more than a feeling really.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 07:29 AM   #24

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Dear AAS, (is that a spelling mistake?)
Every one of your proposed Out of Place artifacts has a perfectly logical and scientific explanation. Most of them were de-bunked years and years ago in a TV series "Arthur C Clarke's Mysterious World. Carl Sagan also made a humourous attack on many of them in a series of articles in OMNI magazine in the 1970s.
Both of these men spent their entire adult lives dreaming of alien civilisations and would have liked nothing more that to have seen some evidence. But they were both scientists and had to act like grown-ups rather than quasi-religious loony tunes.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 08:13 AM   #25
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@Naomosa;Well..

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 10:32 AM   #26

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Everytime an artifact or image that is not a hoax gets described as something of alien origin, it has the same explanation: a combination of ignorance on the subject and a very clear and blatant modern bias. Aliens are nothing more than a modern meme that's become wildly popular despite having no scientific backing (at least as far as intelligent life contacting Earth). Next thing you know everyone will be claiming all ancient peoples had encounters with zombies. Take the lid of Pakal the Great's sarcophagus for example, one of the things AAS mentioned. Everything depicted on it has a detailed explanation stemming from the native Maya's rich mythology, yet AA believers are people who know nothing of that and instead watch to many stuff about space and aliens, so they instead see things through their own biased modern perspective rather than the ancient Maya one.

Quote:
Click the image to open in full size. And, I'll be honest, AAT is based almost entirely on circumstancial evidence and requires a great deal of faith....Hmmmm, that parallels in a very interesting way with every religion that has ever been followed. And if you ask me alien intervention is a little easier to swallow than a 'being' that has always been (older than the universe itself), is omnipitent, omnipresent, and can create something out of nothing by merely willing it to be.....a lot of people like to look down on the ancient astronaut theorists but they should probably examine their own religious beliefs scentifically before they ridicule.
Luckily for me, I have no religious beliefs so by your standards I'm free to ridicule your beliefs as much as I want without being a hypocrite. Religious people have believes and preconceptions just as faulty as yours, though admittedly I have less problems with them since they generally don't use their beliefs to push forward extremely and offensively ethnocentric or misanthropic ideas based entirely on their own prejudices.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 10:50 AM   #27

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Originally Posted by Hresvelgr View Post
Everytime an artifact or image that is not a hoax gets described as something of alien origin, it has the same explanation: a combination of ignorance on the subject and a very clear and blatant modern bias. Aliens are nothing more than a modern meme that's become wildly popular despite having no scientific backing (at least as far as intelligent life contacting Earth). Next thing you know everyone will be claiming all ancient peoples had encounters with zombies. Take the lid of Pakal the Great's sarcophagus for example, one of the things AAS mentioned. Everything depicted on it has a detailed explanation stemming from the native Maya's rich mythology, yet AA believers are people who know nothing of that and instead watch to many stuff about space and aliens, so they instead see things through their own biased modern perspective rather than the ancient Maya one.


Luckily for me, I have no religious beliefs so by your standards I'm free to ridicule your beliefs as much as I want without being a hypocrite. Religious people have believes and preconceptions just as faulty as yours, though admittedly I have less problems with them since they generally don't use their beliefs to push forward extremely and offensively ethnocentric or misanthropic ideas based entirely on their own prejudices.
In what way is a belief in AAT extremely offensive in the way that you describe?
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Old December 11th, 2012, 11:56 AM   #28

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In what way is a belief in AAT extremely offensive in the way that you describe?
Because it's pretty much based upon or at least relies on the idea that certain peoples (specifically Africans and Native-Americans usually) were too stupid to build certain things or even have civilization at all. The extreme form of AAT, where everybody had to have alien intervention uplift them, is less ethnocentric but is still misanthropic, subscribing to the idea that humans in general are stupid.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 11:58 AM   #29
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We have a general idea of the conditions. Planets have to be in what's known as the Habitable Zone of a star (the "Goldilocks zone", where it isn't too hot or too cold for liquid water), have to be sufficiently removed from phenomena such as supernovae that could wipe out budding life and other gravitational perturbations that might send asteroids and comets in to the planet's orbit on a regular basis, and the planet should be rocky - at least to support life similar to our own.

As our technology has improved, we have spotted a number of planets that inhabit the HZ, and recently, we have even spotted rocky "super-Earths" that match criteria. We're discovering that such planets aren't rare at all, at least not within our immediate neighbourhood.

The odds against life don't seem to me to be so high. There must be life out there, but whether it's close enough in space or time for us to interact with... that, after all, is the basis of the Fermi Paradox.
Indeed
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Old December 11th, 2012, 12:06 PM   #30

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Because it's pretty much based upon or at least relies on the idea that certain peoples (specifically Africans and Native-Americans usually) were too stupid to build certain things or even have civilization at all. The extreme form of AAT, where everybody had to have alien intervention uplift them, is less ethnocentric but is still misanthropic, subscribing to the idea that humans in general are stupid.
Yes I agree totally with those points, as I've said in an earlier post. Conversely I don't think I'm being ethnocentric/misanthropic by keeping an open mind to different possibilities.
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